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Friday, September 23, 2016

And Why Are You Catholics Saying You Will NEVER Vote for Donald Trump?

Donald Trump Supports Defunding Planned Parenthood!

Trump supports making the Hyde Amendment permanent.That promise alone has Cecile Richards foaming at the mouth. When taxes are denied to the death peddlers, babies live. 

Please, all you purists out there, think of what you are doing when you say you will NEVER vote for Donald Trump. How many babies here and abroad will pay the price for your anti-Trump convictions if Killary Hillary is elected? 

15 comments:

Kevin said...

Since you asked: Because I don't believe him. He's a born liar who wouldn't know the truth if it spat on his shoes. The same goes for Hillary. The main difference between the two of them is whose votes they are pandering for.

Enough. The country is falling apart, and having Trump rather than Hillary in the white house won't make a bit of difference. It's time to pray and keep our heads down until the country repents, or is destroyed.

I've voted for every Republican candidate since I became eligible to vote, often holding my nose and thinking of the Supreme Court. But Trump's transparent lies roll off of me like water. The answer is, because I don't believe him.

Brian said...

"Please, all you purists out there",

The internet is a crummy way to exchange in some ways. You make a single comment, without expansion, and it just sits there by itself and gets misinterpreted and people riff off a small tranche of opinion. It leads to emotion, anger, disputations. I get that.

Still. There are a lot of faithful Catholics who have serious issues with Donald Trump, his past dishonesty; crude bullying behavior; liberal track record and shady personal history that simply wish to have their concerns addressed. Back "in the day" it was called a Candidate doing the hard work of earning each and every vote.

It does not help, during the decision-making process, especially by fellow Catholics, to be referred to as "purists", as if that was a negative character or moral flaw that had to be fixed in order to do God's will in America, election 2016, and just get on board the Trump train already!

Yes, I am a purist in the best sense of the word: A Traditionalist Catholic. No, I am not a purist Pharisee type that thinks he is better than everyone else and is unable to make rational judgements in a fallen world and a godless political system. I've been around a very long time, and I get Trump, "Shrillary", "wasting my vote", voting my conscience, all of that.

I am carefully, cautiously, biding my time and letting the political process do its work. I am still reading blog supporters' opinions like your own. I am letting Trump prove himself by "earning my vote". I am waiting for the debates and letting him express his opinions and policy ON RECORD. I wish him to make firm commitments that I can base the most important vote of my life on ... BEFORE GOD, and for the sake of my children who will likely have to fight in his wars.

It's a big stinkin' deal. What he is doing lately is good. I want more of it. I want it in writing. I want it on the puplic record.

And it would help if you and the other Trump supporting bloggers would be less dismissive of the concerns and opinions of your fellows and remove the heated rhetoric surrounding words like "purists" and "neverteumpsters", which so many of us never signed on to, Or perhaps we are just reconsidering the "never". That's not bad! That's healthy democracy at work in a land of open minds where we still get to debate without compulsion.

Mary Ann Kreitzer said...

I am all in favor of discussing the concerns and opinions of anyone who is troubled by Donald Trump. He was certainly not my first choice, although, being an outsider hated by the establishment and the media, is not a bad thing.

Also -- who started the "never Trump" meme? It wasn't those who are determined to use their intellects to pick the candidate who will do the most good and the least harm it was those who are committed to their "never Trump" ideal.

I respect everything you've said here, Brian. I have a post (A Catholic's Voter Guide) scheduled in a few days that was written by a priest who is a moral theologian and a lawyer. He discusses forming a correct conscience in voting.

I was once a "purist" myself. A friend who has gone to his eternal reward helped me change my mind and see that there never was and never will be a candidate who met that ideal. (Jesus has never been on the ballot.)

Thank you for your comment, Kevin, but it's interesting to see who does believe Trump -- Planned Parenthood head Cecile Richards and the liberal left. My mom always said you can tell a person by the company he keeps. The same goes for his enemies. Trump has the right ones: the pro-aborts, the LGBT crowd, the media, George Soros. That is enough to give me pause and believe he deserves a chance. Frankly, I think he will be more honest than the two Bush presidents who did all they could to advance one-world government and sell out individual rights. (i.e., that abomination of the Patriot Act).

Brian said...

"Jesus has never been on the ballot."

You missed the point. Swing and a miss.

I have voted for many an imperfect candidate in my day. Not the issue here.

Using the election season to listen to the candidates with an open mind; to give them an opportunity to assert the issues upon which their "mandate" for government rests is essential Democracy 101. Basic stuff.

And to close that door; end the electioneering, and say that those who have not gone all in for Trump are "purists" who need to shut up and vote for "Anyone But Hillary" (by fellow Catholics no less!) is what I find so absurd in this election year.

I have never seen anything like it, intra-party anger and disgust. I see it on many a Catholic Trad forum and it is intense and ugly on mainstream conservative political forums.

What is the point of "debates"? What is the point of interviews and questions? "Anyone But Hillary" is Trump. Done.

Or ... Is it rather, that Trump's fear he may lose BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE ME, that he is now making whatever conservative concessions and commitments he now makes? I think it is. He takes you and the "Anyone But Hillary" crowd for granted. If "PURISTS", like ME, were not holding firm to principle, do you really think he would be reaching out and making this (hopefully honest) attempt at reconciling? I really don't.

Either way, I am not giving away my vote that cheaply when my family's future is at stake. He's gonna have to prove it.

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

I myself have gone to great lengths to explain why I believe Catholic moral theology indicates the necessity (not "option" but necessity) of casting one's vote for Trump. I understand that there are issues with Trump, but intellectual honesty demands that we acknowledge that the issues with Trump pale in comparision with the issues of Hillary.

The stark reality is this:either Trump or Clinton will win. Which will it be?

Lauraelaina said...

I cannot help but say, no one is a born liar . To say that about anyone is a despicable thing to say. I see so much good in Mr Trump recently, but who I really like is Pence. When people fire that kind of comment from the hip it says alto about them and where there prayer life is not.

Brian said...

Lauraelaina,

We MUST make such judgements about a man we are electing to the most powerful office in America, at one of the most crucial junctures in history. Candidates say many things; promise many things. Can we trust them?

Do you not make similar judgements about liberals like Hillary or Bill Clinton? Do you call her and him liars? Objectively, Bill should have been impeached for his lies, and sent to jail. Government is FULL of deceit and lies at all levels of representative and bureaucratic representation. To ignore that deceit is voter malpractice. We voters are called to pay attention to that, and vote it OUT!

Men are born with a sin nature, and we are ALL born liars, (among other things). All of us. Only the grace of God gives us the hope of virtue and deliverance from deceit to Truth; death to Life. We LEARN to tell the truth.

It is of utmost importance to me that I can trust the man I am voting for to make life altering decisions for me and my family; our community; our Nation. He says he will do certain things. He says he will protect Life. I need to know I can trust him to keep his word. Truth matters. Lies matter.

As Ted Cruz said today, "I need firm commitments".

As an honorable President said 30 years ago, "Trust, but verify".

Mary Ann Kreitzer said...

Brian, all the Republicans have taken the pro-life vote for granted and NEVER made the kind of commitments Donald Trump is making. They also NEVER surrounded themselves with pro-life advisers. Is Trump going to turn around like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and do the exact opposite of everything he's saying? I find that a little hard to believe. That presumes he has no integrity whatever and those who have dealt with him directly in business are not saying that.

What he does in the campaign will impact what happens in his business life whatever happens in the election. I believe him when he says he cares about the country. And I certainly don't believe that Hillary cares two hoots about anything but herself.

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

Brian, you seem to lack any sense of perspective. Such is the case if you refuse to acknowledge that Hillary, with all her evils, makes Trump to appear to be a boy scout in comparison. One of the two will go to the White House. You just said that your family depends on the outcome of this election. True, we all do. What will you do?

Susan Matthiesen said...

I was always for Trump. He was the only one who could have beaten Hillary and at this point I think he will do it because it doesn't seem as if she will be able to hold up under the debate pressures. Also because people are angry and have had enough of being forced into complicity with evil.

Does anyone ever think that perhaps God raised up this man to be the way he is - fearless in the face of public opinion, giving the media some of its own back, so wealthy that no lobbyists can buy him, and willing to listen to people like Phyllis Schlafly?

Jesus would want us to vote for the MORAL LAW. He put a spark into Trump after he (and Jesus too) had had enough of the far left evil thrown upon us, nuns being forced to pay for abortion, same-sex "marriage", transgender laws.

Someone HAS to stop the evil, make it back off, and the only person in sight is Donald trump. I have faith that he will do -or at least try - what he says: Make America great again. Only he can do it.

Susan said...

Consider: Since the first day of the 54 Day Rosary Novena being prayed by massive numbers of the faithful (endorsed by Cardinal Burke and others), things have been
looking better for Trump and less well for the despicable child killer. The Church teaches there is a hierarchy of values, the right to life being at the pinnacle. That teaching must inform our candidate selection. The trend during this novena is undeniable.
See: http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vortex-hillarys-horrible-health

and

EWTN's The World Over, 9-15-2016.

Susan said...

Consider: Since the first day of the 54 Day Rosary Novena being prayed by massive numbers of the faithful (endorsed by Cardinal Burke and others), things have been
looking better for Trump and less well for the despicable child killer. The Church teaches there is a hierarchy of values, the right to life being at the pinnacle. That teaching must inform our candidate selection. The trend during this novena is undeniable.
See: http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vortex-hillarys-horrible-health

and

EWTN's The World Over, 9-15-2016.

Brian said...

Restore D.C. Catholicism,

That is a peculiar statement you made about me.

It reminds me in a small way of the response Ted Cruz got when he encouraged the Republican Convention to "vote their conscience". Conscience?! Outrageous!

Have you ever seen the second place candidate booed off the Stage, and run out of the hall? I have not. Or his wife escorted away by security to prevent physical violence against her person by enraged conservative Republican delegates? Appalling. Because Cruz failed to go all in for Trump, and encouraged delegates and voters to retain PERSPECTIVE and vote their CONSCIENCE! This is the sort of thing I see all the time from Trad forums and conservative political forums. Not valid debates, but dismissive moral outrage. "But .... He is not Hillary .... You must support abortion ... You will have blood on your hands .... etc."

How will I vote? It depends on what he says and does between now and Nov 5. I am trying to gain needed "perspective" before I commit to the man with so many fundamental questions. Unlike Susan Matthiesen, I do not believe Trump was "raised up by God". I think he is a judgement from God. So is Hillary. And I have valid reasons to think it, though no ne ever listens.

But as to "perspective", I think it really applies more to you than me. You made up your mind a long time ago, with information and proof hardly required, and what Trump does or does not say, or commit to between now and Election Day is irrelevant to you. Trump is not Hillary. Ok then.

In healthier democratic days, these weeks leading up to the election were important to help voters gain ... perspective .... before they committed themselves to a vote..

I will continue to listen and judge accordingly. After gaining needed perspective.

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

Brian, you take objection to an alleged "peculiar statement" I made regarding you and then you proceed to lodge your own peculiar statement about me, namely, "you made your mind up a long time ago with information and proof hardly required". For your information, I voted for Cruz in the primary. He didn't win. He was booed off the conventionn stage because he carried on like a petulant child, refusing to endorse Trump as he pledged to do so. Fortunately he has rectified that situation in the past few days.
As for what Trump has done, have you noticed his choice of running mate? How about the advisors with which he surrounded himself? The list of potential SCOTUS nominees? Compare with Hillary's own doings and sayings. Or are these irrelevant to you?

Brian said...

Restore-DC-Catholicism,

Well, it is peculiar. You accuse me of lacking perspective, when perspective is precisely what I am trying to gain through the remainder of the long election season. All of it.

Yes, I have noticed those things you mention. Yes, I am noticing. That's my point. That is why we have an election season. Campaign. Convince. Decide. Vote. Since there are more registered Democrats than Republicans, you better hope people still have an open mind to classic political persuasion. Hard-core Trump voters may be angry, but they will not be enough.

In regards to Cruz acting like a petulant child, I don't know what to say to that. I saw statesmanship and a mature closing statement in the face is of a very divisive, emotional "petulant", "childish" campaign against him.. I saw classic, adult political statesmanship.

You saw a petulant child. Ok.

And apparently everyone at the Convention agreed with you, because the collected elites of the Republican Party rose up and threw that petulant child out of the Hall and in their rage they threatened the petulant child's wife with violence, who needed security to ensure her safety from the screaming, enraged hordes.

You and I see the same set of facts and draw opposite conclusions. I think the gathered collective Republican establishment acted, and is acting, like an angry petulant child. The spirit of that attack still persists within the still divided Republican Party, ("Vote for Trump or you will have blood on your hands").

Ted Cruz walked out of that room with his honor intact. The Republicans who remained behind were stained with dishonor. I may still vote for the man because as bad as he is, the alternative is unthinkable.

But I won't forget it. Many others will not either.