tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post2374241053498192585..comments2024-03-28T22:26:19.263-04:00Comments on LES FEMMES - THE TRUTH: Sodomy and Theology of the Body: The Death of Common SenseMary Ann Kreitzerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18245237845099708478noreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-81764683938859767272009-06-05T13:16:54.514-04:002009-06-05T13:16:54.514-04:00I agree with Christina that things have gone prett...I agree with Christina that things have gone pretty far afield here and with Ed Peters that there's not much more to be gained by continuing. I also agree that the spurious attacks on Pope John Paul II are unfair. <br /><br />I thank everyone for their participation, especially Father George David Byers<br />(Chaplain of the Sanctuaries of Our Lady of Lourdes, France) who I think acted in Mary Ann Kreitzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18245237845099708478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-17593789107786647802009-06-05T13:02:43.576-04:002009-06-05T13:02:43.576-04:00>christina ,No one said JP@ was a "pervert...>christina ,No one said JP@ was a "pervert pope" (your words)<br /><br />No, I was quoting the above post of June 4, 2009 2:56 PM, which said:<br /><br />"As for the writings "Theology of the Body" belonging to the late Pope JP2....well guess what NOT everything a Pope states or writes is wise,correct or ex cathedra...there were perverted Popes in Church history."christinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-9737369733535153772009-06-05T12:36:26.609-04:002009-06-05T12:36:26.609-04:00The canonizaton of Opus Dei founder Fr. Escriva is...The canonizaton of Opus Dei founder Fr. Escriva is one that has many Catholics I know very puzzled. One side says these canonizations are absolutely infallible, the other side says maybe not. One thing all sides can agree on is OD has plenty of power and money. Diocesan priests who I consider to be very well read and <br />fair minded, have told me it OD fits the definition of a cult. If that is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-5841946940923855852009-06-05T11:29:23.916-04:002009-06-05T11:29:23.916-04:00christina ,No one said JP@ was a "pervert pop...christina ,No one said JP@ was a "pervert pope" (your words) and judging from your outrage you have been affected by the same Papolatry that was fomented by both opus dei and the Legion/RC druing and now after his Pontificate.<br />"However, that does not mean that we, in this forum, have a right to blame JP2 for what West adds to his words."<br /><br />Christina he WAS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-14197994562882903602009-06-05T11:28:13.058-04:002009-06-05T11:28:13.058-04:00There has been 1 pope canonized in the past 500. T...There has been 1 pope canonized in the past 500. Those suggesting JP II is about to jump over all those <br />other popes is quite the leap of faith. The last 5 popes were asked by heaven, to do one simple task, which would have granted peace to the entire world, consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in union with ALL the bishops of the world <br />It was asked of Pius XI, Pius XIIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-16393789909191571722009-06-05T09:03:38.706-04:002009-06-05T09:03:38.706-04:00C. O'Brien,
Even if Ed Peters and Janet Smith...C. O'Brien,<br /><br />Even if Ed Peters and Janet Smith claim that a handful of non-magisterial manualists speak for orthodox Catholic doctrine, that doesn't mean that they or the commentators represent orthodox Catholic doctrine on this point. No one has personal infallibility over faith and morals except for the Holy Father when he's solemnly speaking to the Universal Church on Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-85152115654744633902009-06-05T08:22:23.491-04:002009-06-05T08:22:23.491-04:00Okay I looked up the info on the late Pontiff'...Okay I looked up the info on the late Pontiff's correspondence with a woman. The problem is that the Congregation for Causes wants to read the five decades worth of correspondence between them now that it has come to light... and that will necessarily delay the cause for sainthood.<br /><br />There is no indication of an inappropriate relationship between them... he apparently corresponded christinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-8261198413008690922009-06-05T08:07:03.358-04:002009-06-05T08:07:03.358-04:00To answer a few things various posters said:
>...To answer a few things various posters said:<br /><br />>So now I'm asking myself - Where else did the Church's moral teaching tradition get it so wrong?<br /><br />This is not "the Church's" official teaching, just the opinion of some moral theologians... and that's not even unanimous since at least one (Prummer) opposed it. Please don't confuse the opinons of christinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-84357651184208256022009-06-05T07:22:57.288-04:002009-06-05T07:22:57.288-04:00Father George said: "As I say, a group of rel...Father George said: "As I say, a group of relatively extremely recent non-magisterial authors do not equal the Holy Spirit, nor the Magisterium, etc. Orthodox Catholic doctrine is not at risk!"<br /><br />But Dr. Peters and Janet Smith are saying that orthodox Catholic doctrine DOES permit AP. <br /><br />I am content to be docile to the teaching of the Church even on things that I C. O'Briennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-5287714903332044932009-06-05T07:22:29.013-04:002009-06-05T07:22:29.013-04:00:) I gave you plenty above, if you know what you&#...:) I gave you plenty above, if you know what you're doing, anon., but here's a new one:<br /><br />Inchoare copulam in vaso indebito v.g., in vase postero vel in ore, cum intentione eam consummandi in vagina; item gentalibus tangere vas posterum aut ore ea lambere, non sunt mortale, dummodo praecaveatur profusio seminis et excludatur affectus sodomiticus, qui tamen facile aderit si Ed Petershttp://www.canonlaw.infonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-27054629189135674982009-06-05T02:35:28.800-04:002009-06-05T02:35:28.800-04:00Exactly right, Anonymous of 2:06 am.
These are al...Exactly right, Anonymous of 2:06 am.<br /><br />These are all essentially homosexual acts: sodomy, oral sex, etc.<br /><br />We are dealing with that which is intrisically dishonest. We are dealing with that which is grave matter. We are dealing with what is objectively gravely sinful.<br /><br />When homosexuals do these kind of things, it is objectively gravely evil for them. These are not Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-86628602158215165622009-06-05T02:31:02.914-04:002009-06-05T02:31:02.914-04:00Ed Peters Sez: "How funny."
No, it'...Ed Peters Sez: "How funny."<br /><br />No, it's not. Still waiting for your citation, counsel. Blaming your computer is like the poor craftsman who blames his tools. No excuse. If you don't have a citation, don't post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-69988379864085509722009-06-05T02:06:22.177-04:002009-06-05T02:06:22.177-04:00Verbally sanitizing sodomy by calling it anal pene...Verbally sanitizing sodomy by calling it anal penetration wreaks of coming from a sodomite apologist.It reminds me of the many times pederasts in clerical abuse cases have used the defense ,"I did not think it would harm the child ,I was just showing my love".West used the "Song of Songs" in the Nightline presentation to sanitize oral sex also. Reminded me of a former Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-14945445984604214832009-06-04T23:57:48.790-04:002009-06-04T23:57:48.790-04:00In the context of the present discussion I couldn&...In the context of the present discussion I couldn't help thinking of the late Carrie Tomko and some of the excellent research to be found on her blog. In investigating the doings of Fr. <br />Ron Rolheiser she has this to say about his article entitled "In Praise of Skin":<br /><br />(Quote) Here he pulls no punches. In here he says that "skin meets skin, in sacramental sex, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-26306679956158570992009-06-04T23:43:37.564-04:002009-06-04T23:43:37.564-04:00The 59th post on this board reads as though it was...The 59th post on this board reads as though it was written by a saint. <br /><br />And special praise to Fr George.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-39525387123321690432009-06-04T23:36:14.769-04:002009-06-04T23:36:14.769-04:00To C. O'Brien,
As I say, a group of relativel...To C. O'Brien,<br /><br />As I say, a group of relatively extremely recent non-magisterial authors do not equal the Holy Spirit, nor the Magisterium, etc.<br /><br />Orthodox Catholic doctrine is not at risk!<br /><br />Father GeorgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-68863068633003224522009-06-04T23:18:25.683-04:002009-06-04T23:18:25.683-04:00Ed Peters said:
"...why not reflect on the w...Ed Peters said: <br />"...why not reflect on the words of Ligouri: “Piget me de hac materia quae tantam prae se fert <br />foeditatem, ut castas mentes ipso solo nomine perturbet longiorem habere sermone.” L nevertheless goes on to discuss a number of licit and illicit sexual acts. Why? Because people need to know what the truth is."<br /><br />No, the answer is rather because shepherdsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-36983174689792986152009-06-04T22:44:19.766-04:002009-06-04T22:44:19.766-04:00Where else? In the seminaries hence, the crisis of...Where else? In the seminaries hence, the crisis of pederasty and homosexuality in the church which has been draining the coffers...and btw Christina it appears the correspondence of the late Pope to a certain woman has been holding up the canonization process. One must also consider his close friendship with Maciel....a Pope yes, but not necessarily saint material. The Legion thought Maciel was Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737531823473359123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-82841206522049773372009-06-04T22:23:16.217-04:002009-06-04T22:23:16.217-04:00I give Dr. Peters the benefit of doubt that there ...I give Dr. Peters the benefit of doubt that there is a tradition in orthodox Catholic moral theology that allows for AP as foreplay. But that only makes matters worse for us.<br /><br />How would he or others address what I think is a widespread response to that teaching tradition: (1) intense rejection of it at a visceral level and (2) raising doubt on other traditional orthodox teaching?<br />C. O'Briennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-77686855817588896062009-06-04T21:22:51.268-04:002009-06-04T21:22:51.268-04:00At the risk of sounding disrespectful, as far as M...At the risk of sounding disrespectful, as far as Ms. Engel's comments are concerned, I think we are past the point at which we can just take her word for it.dcsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-75501882991035449992009-06-04T20:33:45.287-04:002009-06-04T20:33:45.287-04:00As a convert to the faith -- 30 years ago -- I was...As a convert to the faith -- 30 years ago -- I was drawn by the Church's teaching on sexuality. Specifically, Humanae Vitae. And it has always delighted me that "Ma Church" did not shrink from discussing how one lived the Faith in the most intimate of acts -- i.e., food, money, sex. No over-spirituality, disconnected theology here! And I'm still delighted that this is so. ThankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-53190388851048852002009-06-04T20:04:13.053-04:002009-06-04T20:04:13.053-04:00>Poop is crap...etc.
I agree completely with t...>Poop is crap...etc.<br /><br />I agree completely with that comment, but please be more temperate with your language. There is no need to devolve into crudity when discussing such issues. Yes, the act-in-question is disgusting... that is not in dispute. But our language should still remain as temperate and chaste as possible, given the circumstances.christinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-72048103226213202582009-06-04T19:54:45.194-04:002009-06-04T19:54:45.194-04:00>Again I ask...who compiled the writings now kn...>Again I ask...who compiled the writings now known as TOB to market them as such and why? That is an important question whether or not any posters consider it as such.The intent says much about the effects........<br /><br />AFAIK, the first ones to compile and market the pope's TOB speeches were the Daughters of St. Paul (DSP). They compiled them because they published a lot of papal christinanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-65623785966292768092009-06-04T19:29:29.824-04:002009-06-04T19:29:29.824-04:00Poop is crap and it belongs in the rectum or toile...Poop is crap and it belongs in the rectum or toilet, not on the end of someone's penis or in someone's vagina. Disease alone should be enough to discourage anyone let alone the sinfulness of the act of sodomy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8568419039847692717.post-42228036115863531072009-06-04T19:11:32.589-04:002009-06-04T19:11:32.589-04:00Christina,
Again I ask...who compiled the writing...Christina, <br />Again I ask...who compiled the writings now known as TOB to market them as such and why? That is an important question whether or not any posters consider it as such.The intent says much about the effects........Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com