There is a reason why the laity does not make decisions in the Church and why the Church is not a democracy. It is emotional responses like this posting that can make things much worse.
From Father John Zuhlsdorf:
“Today, canonist-galore Ed Peters has long and pretty comprehensive look at another canonists idea that Gov. Cuomo could be tried for heresy: “the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith”. Peters breaks down all the terms and looks at the feasibility of such a case.
Anyone interested in what “heresy” is, or how canonical procedures work, would do well to read his whole offering. It is a mini-workshop and very informative. At the very least it will give the average reader a new view of how high the bar is for imposing a sanction on a person.
Peters also make the point that a failed attempt at imposing a censure on Cuomo would make matters worse. Whatever is undertaken has to be done meticulously.”
One can also be certain that Cuomo would wear an excommunication like a badge of honor and use it to show how oppressive and hateful the Church is.
Let’s leave Church rulings to those who are entrusted with such matters.
“2. A prosecution of Cuomo based on heresy would face numerous canonical obstacles (though perhaps fewer than were the obstacles presented in a similar case I treated back in 2004 regarding John Kerry). If such a prosecution were tried and failed (or even if it succeeded but under conditions that made it appear to have been ‘rigged’) the damage to the Church’s efforts to enforce her own discipline would be considerable. That said, though, most of the reasons I have heard for not trying to excommunicate Cuomo (he would not heed the ruling, it would make him a martyr, he would use it as PR against the Church) are speculative and irrelevant. In my view, the only reason not to excommunicate Cuomo is that no canon law seems to authorize an excommunication against him on the facts as they stand today. ”
This last comment was not made by me, I made the first two comments, I actually would not have a problem with Cuomo being excommunicated. But I don’t think that we as laity have the right to make that judgment.
Well I for one can make a very educated judgement on Card Dolan's protestations about the few years extension on the statute of limitations for child sexual molestation in NY, especially for sodomite acts on pre and post adolescents. speaking to wives and mothers of these male victims I know the shame ,guilt and embarrassment they endure before they find the voice to speak out. I also know from them that the sodomite Priest aggressor involved in most cases understands the psychological trauma very well that they are inflicting on the youth. They KNOW after long term exposure to sodomy , the young male believes he IS a homosexual. Hence, this is a means to propagate the disorder. Note in the forward to "Rite of Sodomy" Randy ends it with the phrase, "Now you are one of us." If you read actual court cases , you will note in testimonies about their abuse , adult victims will say ," I thought I must be a homosexual or why would the priest have been attracted to me?" More than a few victims were saved from a life in the vice thanks to marriage and children. Once they have little boys of their own they realize they were not complicit in the vice but innocent and naive. Cardinal Dolan ,please READ AND LEARN. http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/engel/190123
There is a reason why the laity does not make decisions in the Church and why the Church is not a democracy. It is emotional responses like this posting that can make things much worse.
ReplyDeleteFrom Father John Zuhlsdorf:
“Today, canonist-galore Ed Peters has long and pretty comprehensive look at another canonists idea that Gov. Cuomo could be tried for heresy: “the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith”. Peters breaks down all the terms and looks at the feasibility of such a case.
Anyone interested in what “heresy” is, or how canonical procedures work, would do well to read his whole offering. It is a mini-workshop and very informative. At the very least it will give the average reader a new view of how high the bar is for imposing a sanction on a person.
Peters also make the point that a failed attempt at imposing a censure on Cuomo would make matters worse. Whatever is undertaken has to be done meticulously.”
One can also be certain that Cuomo would wear an excommunication like a badge of honor and use it to show how oppressive and hateful the Church is.
Let’s leave Church rulings to those who are entrusted with such matters.
Read the whole post:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2019/01/canonist-ed-peters-on-trying-gov-andrew-the-ghoul-cuomo-for-heresy-fr-z-makes-some-observations/
One other comment from Canonist Ed Peters:
ReplyDelete“2. A prosecution of Cuomo based on heresy would face numerous canonical obstacles (though perhaps fewer than were the obstacles presented in a similar case I treated back in 2004 regarding John Kerry). If such a prosecution were tried and failed (or even if it succeeded but under conditions that made it appear to have been ‘rigged’) the damage to the Church’s efforts to enforce her own discipline would be considerable. That said, though, most of the reasons I have heard for not trying to excommunicate Cuomo (he would not heed the ruling, it would make him a martyr, he would use it as PR against the Church) are speculative and irrelevant. In my view, the only reason not to excommunicate Cuomo is that no canon law seems to authorize an excommunication against him on the facts as they stand today. ”
https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2019/01/30/on-excommunicating-andrew-cuomo-for-heresy/
Horrible what cuomo has done but are we being judgmental in condemning Cardinal Dolan. Jesus said go and sin no more.
ReplyDeleteThis last comment was not made by me, I made the first two comments, I actually would not have a problem with Cuomo being excommunicated. But I don’t think that we as laity have the right to make that judgment.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you "unknowns" should pick another moniker. Gets a little confusing to tell you apart. LOL!
ReplyDeleteWell I for one can make a very educated judgement on Card Dolan's protestations about the few years extension on the statute of limitations for child sexual molestation in NY, especially for sodomite acts on pre and post adolescents.
ReplyDeletespeaking to wives and mothers of these male victims I know the shame ,guilt and embarrassment they endure before they find the voice to speak out.
I also know from them that the sodomite Priest aggressor involved in most cases understands the psychological trauma very well that they are inflicting on the youth. They KNOW after long term exposure to sodomy , the young male believes he IS a homosexual. Hence, this is a means to propagate the disorder.
Note in the forward to "Rite of Sodomy" Randy ends it with the phrase, "Now you are one of us."
If you read actual court cases , you will note in testimonies about their abuse , adult victims will say ," I thought I must be a homosexual or why would the priest have been attracted to me?" More than a few victims were saved from a life in the vice thanks to marriage and children. Once they have little boys of their own they realize they were not complicit in the vice but innocent and naive.
Cardinal Dolan ,please READ AND LEARN.
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/engel/190123