I'm forwarding below an email about the complicity of the Knights of Columbus in passing the same-sex marriage bill in New York. In their official documents the Knights require members to be "practical" (i.e., practicing) Catholics, but one can easily believe that the word really means "practical" as in pragmatic. The Knights will not discipline or remove a member for publicly scandalizing the Church. When you read the list of Catholic knight-politicians supporting same-sex marriage, you'll be shocked.
It all goes to prove, once more, that love of money is the root of all evils. The Knights collect money for the poor with one hand and enable massive evil with the other. One can be excused for the cynical belief that the Knights are really about selling insurance, not advancing the kingdom of God. Local councils may be great, but if they introduce a motion to remove politician members who support abortion and "gay" rights, it never makes it to the floor for a vote. And, in fact, they've been instructed by the higher ups that they may not remove a member for that reason. Hey, it might make the Knights unpopular and threaten head honcho Carl Anderson's million dollar + salary. The Knights copout about why they don't remove scandalous members is that it's the bishops' responsibility. So they affirm a lie, that members must be "practical" Catholics, while they promote public scandal giving pro-abort, pro-homosexual knights a pass. For an interesting commentary on the email below go here.
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 19:36:11 -0700
From: frjosephklee@yahoo.com
Subject: The K of C's and NY's New Homosexual "Marriage" Law
To: frjosephklee@yahoo.com
Dear Folks -
It is very discouraging to see the "premiere" Catholic Men's organization (the K of C's) helping destroy souls and the nation, by facilitating homosexual "marriage" (as if this was even a possible concept).
The following shows how those in powerful positions in NY government, and also members of this fabulously wealthy organization (the K of C's), did the devil's bidding.
St. Charles Llwanga, Pray for us !
- Fr. Joseph Klee
P.S. - St. Charles Llwanga, a 19th Century Ugandan martyr (feast day being June 3rd), was put to death after he refused the homosexual advances of King Mwanga (King of Uganda, at that time).
K of C State Senators Joe Addabbo & David Carlucci cast crucial votes to pass "Gay Marriage" in NY (33-29) on 24/Jun/11. Gay Marriage is now in 5 North East states: CT, MA, NH, NY, VT; also DC, IA, (introduced, later defeated in CA, ME). MA State Deputy Dick Guerriero failed to suspend Pro-Abortion/Pro-Gay pols, but signed an Open Letter endorsing Mitt Romney (R), who introduced Gay Marriage on 17/May/2004, flipped on abortion! On 14/Jun/07, the heavily-Catholic MA Legislature, in Constitutional Convention, voted to defeat the efforts of 170,000 signatories to put traditional marriage on the 2008 ballot. (R) Republicans, others Dems.
At least 16 Massachusetts K of C pols caused the defeat;10 italicized have top PP ratings (PPLMVotes.org): Speaker Sal DiMasi (guilty on 7 counts in kickback scheme, 15/Jun/11), House Majority Leader John Rogers, Reps Garret Bradley, Bob DeLeo (now Speaker), Stephen DiNatale, Chris Donelan, Chris Fallon, Kevin Honan, Paul McMurtry, Charles Murphy, Bob Nyman, Angelo Puppolo, Bob Spellane; Senators Michael Knapik (R) (PGK), Tom McGee, Michael Morrissey (Mass.Gov). These K of C Reps voted $750k for Gay Programs in MA public schools. Senators voted an increase to $850k on 22/May/08. In July ’08, they (except Puppolo) repealed a 1913 law, thus allowing same-sex couples from 50 states to marry in MA. By July ’09, 14 K of C pols signed in support of an access-for-all-genders “Bathroom Bill” H. 1728.
Fr. Michael McGivney founded the Knights of Columbus, a Roman Catholic fraternal order, in the basement of St. Mary's Church, New Haven, CT in 1882. The principles are Charity, Unity, Fraternity and Patriotism. Membership is predominantly laymen. Priests have free life membership. A third of the 1.8 million members purchase insurance. The K of C gave a record $151 million to charity in ’09 - $116 million of it from local/state councils. Only $1.9 million (Down $1.5m from ’08) of $34.6 million in HQ Charitable Contributions in ’09 went to Pro-Life, but the K of C Museum got almost treble - $5.6 million (Up $1.8m from ’08).
K of C claim to be Pro-Life and to be the “Strong right arm of the Church”! This was true when the late John McDevitt was Supreme Knight (1964-1977). Now, Carl Anderson ($1,216,524/yr), SK since 2000 fails to suspend/expel the many Pro-Abortion/Pro-Homosexual K of C pols. In his 2010 Supreme Knight Message to State Conventions video, Anderson never mentioned the Right to Life or marriage. This is grave given that he is a member of the Pontifical Academy for Life, the Pontifical Council for the Family and is a USCCB Pro-Life Committee consultant. On 14/Dec/10, 2 cases alleging sex abuse of minors were filed against the K of C.
SK Virgil Dechant (1977 to 2000. He received $2,164,805 on retirement!), and K of C Board of Directors “refused to capitulate” to Pro-Life Catholics who criticized the Order for not expelling “pro-choice” pols (K of C official history: Faith and Fraternalism, 1992, P451). As a Past SK, Dechant is a lifetime Supreme Director. In Aug 2005, he told Ken Fisher, President of Concerned Roman Catholics of America (CRCOA), that Pro-Abortion pols will “never” be expelled. Patrick Korten, VP for Communications, said that Pro-Abortion members are “few” and “irrelevant” (Boston Herald 11/Aug/07). Joe Mauro, Executive VP Agencies & Marketing ($386,321/yr, retired 2001), said on tape c. 1991, that Pro-Lifers who were writing “thousands and thousands of letters” to K of C HQ seeking to expel Pro-Abortion members, are “...real fanatics out there, radicals...this is the ‘House Rule’...I, I’d prefer you kept silent on the issue (abortion)”.
Supreme Advocate (lawyer) John Marrella ($400,055/yr), wrote on 15/Apr/10 that subordinate councils may not discipline public figures. This is contrary to the Charter Constitution and Laws SEC. 162., which specifies suspension by the State Deputy under SEC. 166. for Giving Scandal etc. No bishop is involved! On 13/Jan/10, w/o legal basis, he directed that members, state/local councils must not contact pols on matters of faith/morals, except as “private citizens”. Marrella & MA SD Michael Baldner got awards from Bp. Arthur Kennedy, Rector of St. John’s Seminary on 4/Dec/10. Fr. Bob Kickham, Cardinal Sean O’Malley’s Secy., is Assoc. K of C Chaplain. YouTube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?blend=1&ob=5#p/search/0/LdQw_PlC9QM
Bishops - like toothless tigers - fail to excommunicate Pro-Abortion/Pro-Homosexual pols and are silent on K of C failures. Supreme Chaplain Bishop William Lori shamefully exploited Pope Benedict’s declaration of Fr. McGivney as Venerable to be "a ringing affirmation of the Order he founded" (Columbia, May 2008).
Emilio Moure sabotaged a CA K of C resolution to suspend Pro-Abortion pols (CalCatholic.com). He was promoted to Supreme Director, Supreme Treasurer, and on 1/Sep/2010, Supreme Secretary ($260,913/yr)!
K of C Cardinal Sean O’Malley (ArchbishopSean@RCAB.org) gave away his 6 Caritas Christi hospitals to Cerberus/Steward on 8/Nov/10 (CaritasChristi.org). The Catholic identity can be abandoned for a $25 million donation to a charity of his choosing (The Pilot, 14/May/10). On 1/Jul/09 he put the 6 hospitals in a MA CeltiCare plan making abortion referrals to Planned Parenthood, the USA's #1 abortionists - 332,278 in ’09 - funded with $363 million of your taxes PlannedParenthood.org/files/PPFA/PP_Services.pdf
Cardinal O’Malley gave Pro-Abortion/Pro-Gay Sen. Ted Kennedy a hero's funeral on 29/Aug/09. He advertised “HOLY WEEK 2010” in Bay Windows, New England’s largest Gay (GLBT) paper. He wasn’t among the 83 US bishops who protested President Barack Obama as Notre Dame’s ’09 Commencement Speaker/Awardee (LifeSiteNews.com). In Dec ’05, he allowed Catholic Charities to award Boston Mayor Tom Menino, a Pro-Abortion Catholic who attends the Gay Pride Parade every June. Fr. Walter Cuenin, K of C, promoted the parade. Boston City Councilors Michael Flaherty & John Tobin, both K of C, marched.
Ray Flynn, K of C, former U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican, endorsed Pro-Abortion/Pro-Gay Hillary Clinton in the presidential primary (Boston Herald 6/Feb/08). Flynn then went to work in her campaign! On 4/May/08, Supreme Advocate Paul Devin, who gave money to Pro-Abortion pols Ted & Joe Kennedy (OpenSecrets.org), ruled a MA K of C State Convention resolution by GK/FDD Joe Craven to suspend Pro-Abortion/Pro-Gay pols to be “unconstitutional”. Disgraced, Paul Devin retired in Feb 2009.
Massachusetts Citizens For Life President Joe Reilly, K of C, & his wife Evelyn (MFI lobbyist), tried to remove me as a MCFL Director in ’07 because I exposed Pro-Abortion K of C pols! MCFL is a state affiliate of National Right to Life. EWTN, March for Life, & Sisters of Life betray unborn children when they give prominence to K of C leaders who welcome Pro-Abortion/Pro-Homosexual pols in exchange for tax exemption.
Rodney Shropshire, K of C General Agent, showed great hostility towards my Pro-Life work. He moved me to a small, poor territory (I was in the top third as an Insurance Field Agent: Lancer E. Division Report, y-t-d June ’99). In Jan 2000, Shropshire terminated my contract as a “failure”. VP Agencies, Tom Smith, ($419,504/yr), countersigned his lie. Supreme Knights Virgil Dechant & Carl Anderson didn’t answer my letters. Supreme Treasurer Deacon Ken Ryan ($208,181/yr) wrote lies, then claimed his signed letter wasn't his! On 18/Jun/2004, SD Tom Ledbetter suspended my membership for Scandal, Slander and Publishing Detrimental Matter - without any evidence! My appeal was rejected as “late” by Supreme Advocate Paul Devin ($387,130/yr), and by the Supreme Board of Dir. at a show trial held without my knowledge. All lied.
The Vatican fails to supervise. Please write to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, Apostolic Palace, 00120 Vatican City. Advise him of the situation. E-mail: BenedictXVI@Vatican.Va & Carl.Anderson@KOFC.org Please copy me at LifeJohn@AOL.com PH: SK Carl Anderson 800 380 9995, FAX 203 752 4118.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Mr. Anderson: K of C laws & resolutions are defied by the refusal to suspend/expel Pro-Abortion/Pro-Gay pols & members - 53 million surgical abortions since Roe v. Wade in 1973 (chemical abortions extra), and failure to require that Hall Rental Agreements prevent Gay Weddings, NARAL & Witch events etc. being booked. You, Virgil Dechant, John Marrella & Emilio Moure must resign now! K of C members and all Pro-Lifers must insist on these resignations, and should require a vow to protect Unborn Children as a condition of K of C membership. The Order, with $16 billion in assets, should forgive “Church Loans” of $117 million, lent at 5.5% interest, and help needy dioceses and Pro-Life groups.
SIGN:____________________________________________________
PRINT NAME:______________________________________________
ADDRESS:_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Mail: John O’Gorman, 30 Myrtle Avenue, Winthrop, MA 02152, USA for forwarding. P/F: 617-846-2983.
Please distribute freely by photocopy/fax/e-mail. God bless you.
8/Jul/2011
This is not new news, of course: The Knights of Columbus have been out of the closet for some time as just one more Potemkin-village, Catholic-theme-parked, Establishment-Church organization.
ReplyDelete“The Knights collect money for the poor with one hand and enable massive evil with the other.”
Hmm: Sound like any other Catholic-Establishment (or Caritas-Internationalis member-) organizations that you’re familiar with?
It’s also interesting how absolutely impervious to true reform are Catholic-themed Ruling-Class institutions such as the KofC or the Catholic Health Association or Catholic Relief Services. (That’s why you well-intentioned “reformers” must instead keep saying over and over to yourselves: “replace, not capture; replace, not capture…”) Every so often there will be an eruption of mini-publicity in the “right-wing” Catholic media about the culture-of-death collusion of the Knights or CRS; the bored Catholic public will, at the most, experience a moment of “concern”; and the offending organization will, at the most, issue a convoluted denial or an empty “explanation of policy.” Those few Catholics who even care and are paying attention buy the explanation, the dirt is swept under the rug…and Catholics blithely continue to support the Knights and invite them over to jolly up and prettify their Catholic-themed ceremonies. Reform? Go tell it to the Marines.
The Knights, as the faith and the hierarchical discipline necessary to preserve the faith have waned or disappeared (so that it’s totally unclear what it even means for a Knight to be a “practical Catholic”), have become essentially a club (like the modern body of American bishops themselves?; like the very Church in America itself?). A club can perform many good and meritorious services – and the Knights, and the bishops, certainly do – but, as a club, its primary, existential duty – prior to the service of “co-religionists” outside the club – is to protect and promote its members and their privileges. For a “shining” example of what it means to be a club – rather than a religion or a body of believers – take a look at the priority the American bishops gave to self-protection at their 2002 meeting in Dallas.
The reluctance of the Knights to remove or even correct one of their members who denies the faith, who is obviously not a “practical Catholic,” should come as no surprise, for, as an Establishment-Church body/club, they model their behavior on the “lead club” of the American bishops.
Well, by that often annoying, mandated Design of Things, we are just stuck with the body of bishops, as an institution. So I’m afraid my watchword of “replace, not capture” just won’t work with them – as an institution, that is, though we should certainly be praying and working for large-scale individual replacings. However, Christ by no means mandated, or even suggested, that we should maintain in perpetuity such decidedly non-sacred and impossible-to-“reform” institutions or clubs as: the Legionaries of Christ, the Jesuits, Catholic Charities, Catholic Relief Services…or the Knights of Columbus.
Replace, not capture.
I have kept my membership, but stopped participation in my council over the Grand Knight living in a homosexual relationship. He has since died but I still have a bad feeling.
ReplyDeleteI stopped attending KofC functions after Council 6790 retained a member who opposed my pro-life stance. I am a PGK (Past Grand Knight) of the council.
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing to me that no one seems to think that Mr. O'Gorman, who has raised this issue about the Knights for some time now, is himself an insurance broker. No conflict of interest?
ReplyDeleteMuch is made of the fact that the Supreme Knight receives over $1 million in compensation from the Knights. Indeed, the Knights have a formidable insurance program, among the top-rated in the country. CEO's at successful commercial insurance companies make 15-20 times that amount, and also have a sea of executives making 2-3 times that amount. If it was about the money, I think the Supreme Knight and his team would have left a long time ago for greener pastures.
The Knights of Columbus cannot be the enforcer for issues that fall into the purview of the Church. Demand more from our bishops. The bishop of Albany gleefully serves Communion to Andrew Cuomo, fully cognizant of his views on same sex marriage and fully aware of his live-in relationship. The Bishop of Rochester would get in line to do the same. Get the jellyfish out of our episcopate!
The Knights of Columbus are not a religious order, it is a Catholic fraternal organization. Take a cross section of the Church in the US, 25% regularly attend Mass, and of those less than half believe in the Real Presence. Some of the 75% get into the Knights, and some of the bad part of the 25% get in as well. CATHECHESIS!!!!! It has been abysmal for 40 years, and we are seeing the effects not only among the Knights, but also in the Church.
Stop bashing the Knights and start leveling your protests where they deserve to be leveled. The state of our Church is not because the Knights of Columbus have let us down. They try to maintain a modicum of obedience under difficult circumstances.
Final point: If a Knight was accused of wrongdoing on a felony level and pleads not guilty, should the Knights suspend him before he has had his trial?
Looks to me like Les Femmes has an ulterior motive. Women’s lib in action? Why would any group single out another group that mirrors and supports all aspects of the Catholic Church. Why do they not go after the Catholic Church instead of the Knight of Columbus. While I might agree with some of their points, virtually all of their complaints about the Knight of Columbus are because they have followed the Church’s lead on these issues. If they object to Cardinal O’Malley funeral for Ted Kennedy, why do they not attack him as a Cardinal of the Church instead of being a member of the Knights of Columbus? After all he is a Cardinal first and a member of the Knights of Columbus secondarily.
ReplyDeleteAnd, exactly what is their objection to Carl Anderson’s salary? Do they also object to other CEO’s of other insurance companies with similar responsibilities and even higher salaries? Like other liberal organizations they drop a bomb like his $1,000,000 salary and imply that it is unjustified but provide no details as to why it is unjustified.
Could their objection to the Knight of Columbus be that it is a “mens” organization? Funny this was never mentioned as one of their objections to the Knights of Columbus. Their website says the fully support Catholic doctrine, the Pope, and magisterium and reviewing their mission statement it appears their intention is to do just that, however, I think there are forces there that wittingly or unwittingly have fallen off the path.
It greatly bothers me when websites like this spout such hatred and use the name “Catholic” in the title. “Looking at life from a Catholic point of view”? I don’t think so……
I would hope that Ms Kreitzer would take the time to investigate the Knights of Columbus so she could understand the position of the Knights, their mission, and their effectiveness. Based on her comments it is obvious that she has formed her very negative view of the Knights with less than complete information. It is especially sad because as I read the “Mission Statement” of Les Femme I find it totally in line with the Knights of Columbus. It is a shame that two Catholic groups with the same objectives finds one of those groups so viciously attacking the other. I have attempted to correct some of Ms Kreitzer’s mis-information with comments of my own and have included a few links below to help her and others who share her views to learn the facts about the Knights of Columbus and Carl Anderson.
ReplyDelete1. Ms. Kreitzer somehow comes to the conclusion that because there are individuals in the Knights of Columbus that are pro-abortion, pro-homosexual lifestyle, or not adhering to Catholic teaching in other manners and because the organization does not remove them; the Knights are therefore (in her opinion) supporting these intrinsic evils. This opinion is incorrect at its core because all direction from the Knights supreme office is completely 100% in line with the Catholic Church and the magisterium. The Knights (like any other organization) has members that do not live up to the ideals and objectives of the organization they belong to. The Knights have taken the position that they will allow only practical Catholics as members; however, there is a wrinkle that hamstrings not only the Knights but the Church itself. Ms Kreitzer seems comfortable in criticizing the Knights for not throwing these individuals out but does not attack the Catholic Church for not excommunicating them (at least not nearly as loudly). The Knights will most certainly “throw out” any member who has been excommunicated by the Church. However, the Knights will not be put in the position of judge and jury for every infraction of Church teaching. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if the Knights or any lay organization were to follow the path recommended by Ms Kreitzer? If the Church has not seen fit to excommunicate or otherwise discipline individuals, how can the Knights justify doing it? There would be a never ending challenge of rebuttals and where do you draw the line. Her reasoning to call the Knights of Columbus complicit in passing the same sex marriage bill because politicians that passed it were members of the Knights of Columbus even though the Knights of Columbus has clearly stated their position against same sex marriage is faulty logic at best. Additionally, the Knights of Columbus nor the Catholic Church itself have been endowed with the authority to judge any other human being; this function has be declared by Christ himself to be His and only His authority. These individuals will like all of us face final judgement.
I invite all individuals who are unaware of all that the Knight’s do for their Church and community to review some of the massive amounts of information available at the links below. This only scratches the surface. Please take the time to learn the truth. Les Femme and Ms Kreitzer proclaim to be seeking and promoting truth, however, their blog is anything but a true picture of all the Knights and Carl Anderson do.
Especially, please view the video by Blessed John Paul II and get his view of the Knights (far different then Ms Kreitzer’s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rup_iYz5zc John Paul II comments about Knights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvdQivr6GP8 Insurance Business
http://www.kofc.org/un/en/videos/news.html# Carl Anderson multiple videos
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_tc_2_0?rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3ACarl+Anderson&keywords=Carl+Anderson&ie=UTF8&qid=1316552725&sr=1-2-ent&field-contributor_id=B001I9OKT4 Books by Carl Anderson
http://www.kofc.org/un/en/index.html Knights of Columbus website
Gkroeger, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. You sound like a passionate member of the knights. But you've made some pretty broad assumptions about me so let me clarify. I'm married to a very active knight who served last year as GK of the council. He too is concerned about the hypocrisy of the Knights. The Knights own rules of membership require that individuals be practicing Catholics. Those guilty of public scandal are ineligible according to their by-laws. It has nothing to do with excommunication. That is simply a red herring.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree that the Knights do splendid work. If they didn't, the pro-abortion politicians wouldn't be so eager to capitalize on the Knight's reputation.
Many Catholic schools have lost their identity by conforming to the world. The Knights are in danger of that happening to them. Was St. Teresa of Avila an enemy of the Church for reforming her order? She was trying to save it. That's what Knights like my husband and Knights's Ladies like me want to see. I don't want my husband to quit. What I hope to see is for the Knights to enforce their by-laws. They throw out members who don't pay their dues year after year, a much less serious infraction than publicly supporting abortion.
If the Knights won't enforce their own rules, I think councils should vote to dissociate from them until they do. A parish can establish an independent men's organization to do good works. And if many councils did that, the reform would begin.
As for some of your other statements about me hating men's groups, that's just silly. Stick to the facts of the matter instead of a silly personal attack. Nothing I've said is motivated by hatred, your word. It is motivated by love for unborn babies and for the truth. The Knights cannot serve boyhood God and Mammon. And frankly I don't care how much Supreme makes. That's irrelevant.
Ms. Kreitzer
ReplyDeleteI apologize if I mis-interpreted your comments; however, reading some of the other comments, I was not the only one. Apparently your words were stronger than you intended.
Your response did not address my explanation of the main point of contention; that of the Knights dismissing members who openly support issues which are against Church teaching. Can you not see the validity of the Knights position on this issue? Why do you suppose the Church walks so lightly with these individuals? Do you not agree that the Knights would open themselves up for criticism (which would be justified) of judging individuals on their conformance with Catholic teaching when even the Church has chosen to leave this to Jesus? The Knights are comprised of hundreds of councils each with their own officers, even if the Knights were to change their policy regarding suspension for certain issues such as supporting abortion, how could it be administered fairly? Each Grand Knight may apply the ruling differently; would you suspend only politicians or would you also apply it to someone who was rumored to have encouraged his wife or someone else to have an abortion? Your demand that the Knights throw out certain individuals is more complicated then you imply. The Knights currently ask the new Knight if he is a practical Catholic as understood by the Church. If he replies that he is, we basically take his word for it. Would you also throw out anyone who does not attend mass every Sunday? The list of questions goes on and on. The Knights very clearly communicate what a practical Catholic is; the Knights cannot (just as the Church cannot) control a person’s mis-understandings or outright disobedience.
I certainly can join you in your frustration on this issue; however, you have chosen the wrong target. The Knights were following this policy when Blessed John Paul II made the video I provided the link to in my last post. Do you think he should have joined you in your criticism of the Knights?
I hope and pray that you will reverse your objections and quit providing ammunition to those who hate the Knights for more devious reasons. We do after all have the same objective, but apparently have a difference of how to reach that objective.
Oh, and regarding the point about critical of the Knights because it is a men's group. It may be silly to you, however, it is not silly to me, I cannot tell you how many times I have been approached by women at our annual handicap drive and asked if we allow women to join the Knights. Then told they would not donate to our cause until we allowed women to join.
ReplyDelete@Mary Ann Kreitzer: I would cheer if the Knights would rescind the membership of a politician whose record is in direct opposition to Church teaching, particularly on grave matters such as abortion. Trouble is, that was tried already. Back in the late 1980's the Knights suspended the membership of a congressman in Los Angeles for his pro-abortion views and voting record. In response, Cardinal Mahony, then-Archbishop for the LA Archdiocese, faxed a letter to Supreme telling them what a fine Catholic this congressman was, and that the K of C usurped the authority of the bishop by suspending him. Since that incident, the K of C position has been to look to the local bishop before suspending a member for matters relating to their Catholic faith. They are pretty much hamstrung on this unless they have a Burke, Olmstead, Chaput or other bishop from the phylum Vertebrata - unfortnately many of our bishops are jellyfish.
ReplyDeleteMickey, The bishop's authority is not limitless, nor are the laity required to obey him in all things. I spoke to a canon lawyer on this before I met with the previous bishop of Arlington. He did not like my newsletter and implied I should stop. I replied, "With all due respect, Your Excellency, I owe obedience to God, the Church and my husband. I do not owe it to you in this matter." The diocesan canon lawyer was at the meeting and did not correct me.
ReplyDeleteThe Knights do not owe obedience to the bishop in all things, especially when he is telling them to ignore their by-laws and promote scandal. It would have been a blessing to the cardinal to be challenged. He has a lot to answer for in terms of abuse of his authority and that simply piled up one more.
@ Mary Ann - Ah, here is where we differ. I admire your temerity, and I cannot help but wonder about the topic you were confronted with that required canonical experts. That said, I do believe that I owe my bishop obedience despite not having taken a vow to that effect, and I am not sure that I would have addressed a bishop in that manner. I do believe that if I found myself opposing my bishop on a matter and felt the issue to be grave enough, after seeking counsel from my spiritual director, I would take the matter to the Vatican. For me, it would probably die a slow death as it got buried among thousands of other queries. That would not be the case for the Knights, however - they pretty much have a red phone to the Holy Father. I don't know if they would have consulted with JPII on the Mahony affair, but even if they had, I cannot see him causing a ruckus, he gave many bishops way more rope than they deserved. His successor, God bless him, has proven to be less ... patient. So, I am quite understanding of why the Knights take the position that they do on such matters. Rather than pin a "scandal" label on the Knights, let's place the scandal where it belongs: at the feet of dissenters like Bishop Hubbard of Albany. I am also glad to have someone like you among our "army", and I hope that you can find some understanding and forgiveness in your heart for the K of C's complex predicament. As I said, I would cheer were the Knights to suspend a pro-abortion politician from its ranks, but I realize that this won't happen without the prior approval of the local ordinary.
ReplyDeleteOk, Mickey
ReplyDeleteI think the last post from Ms. Keritzer explains it all. We are beating a dead horse.
I shall shake the dust from my shoes at this point. If she does not listen to bishops we don't have much of a chance. I can certainly understand why the bishop did not like her newsletter. Ms Keritzer apparently has a direct line to God.
So you think you owe the bishop obedience in everything? Every heresy in the Church was begun by a bishop or priest...so would you have followed them into heresy? Many did which is exactly why the Christian Church is so divided. And, by the way I do have a priest spiritual director. Bishops have souls too and several saints warned that the floor of hell is littered with their mitres (or skulls depending on who you read). St. Thomas Aquinas also said clerics sometimes needed to be opposed publicly for public scandals. You don't need a direct line to God to know that killing His babies is an abomination in His sight and that those who publicly support it must be publicly challenged.
ReplyDeletegkroeger and Mickey,
ReplyDeleteI cannot help but be disappointed as a fellow Knight in the weak and equivocating responses defending the Knight's policy of allowing scandal to bloom within the KofC. Evil must be confronted. The Knights MUST judge a man's actions regarding the by-laws. Consistent, persistent public scandal by Knight's in public leadership and public office MUST be dealt with. You don't get a pass on judging. You are not judging their soul's state or their salvation (which excommunication does), you are just upholding the by-laws by removing them from the fraternal organization. Standing by waiting to cheer without risk is not manly. Stand up and fight against evil. Don't look for cover.
I formally withdrew my membership and am free. It was a terrible mistake to become a KofC and 3rd at that. I regret it in every way. It remains, for all the explanations, an organization predicated on secrecy and that alone prevented me from ever being able to invite another soul to consider joining so, apart from the various scandals I was done. Christ has set us free for freedom, period.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, the K of C will come to some justice for all the child molesting, extramarital affairs, abortions of their illegitimate spawn to get out of child support, and illicit gay relationships between members---single, married and ordained. This organization is a smoke screen for all of the above. Most parishioners are very aware of these activities in this organization, and the men who practice this power game. We are not protecting the church by keeping quiet, just as we didn't protect it from the ordained perverts and child molesters. This organization basically supports the devil and evil by the camouflage of good works. The power hungry hypocrites of the church rule this plague. It is time to not only speak up and loud, but to offer up evidence through pictures and tapes of the evilness of this sinful group.
ReplyDeleteWhen a man applies for Membership in the Knights of Columbus, he is asked if he is a Practical Catholic in union with the Holy See. Even if he answers "yes", my job as Grand Knight is to then contact the man's Pastor and VERIFY the Practical Catholicity. I do this even if I know the man personally. Why? Because the Priest may know things about the man that I might not know.
ReplyDeleteThus, when a scandal breaks concerning a Knight, the Bishop will usually defer to the Pastor's judgment. No Bishop can possibly know every man in his Diocese!
About 15 years ago we had a case in my state where a priest was brought up on abuse charges. He assaulted 2 Altar Servers, both of whom were sons of local K of C officers! He was found guilty in court, and is now serving 35-70 years in prison. Within a few hours of the pronouncement of sentence, the letter went to the Supreme Council, indicating the nature of the charges, the verdict, and the penalty. The priest was summarily expelled from the Order. Later, he was Laicized (defrocked)by Pope John Paul II.
There are established procedures for local Councils to follow, and we have almost 15,000 such Councils around the world! With over 1.8 million members, it is impossible for the Supreme Council to keep tabs on the political doings of each of them. Thus, we wait for the local Councils to take up the matter, in accordance with the Laws and Constitution of the Order.
One question that we do not ask on the membership application, but that we DO ask when the man comes to the Admission Committee meeting, is if he has any felony convictions. If he does, that does nto mean he can never get into the Order. What we do is submit the details of the case to Supreme. For instance, if a young man gets involved in a robbery at age 22, serves his time in jail, and then lives an exemplary life afterwards, he has a good chance of getting in. But if he has ever raped or otherwise assaulted a woman or a child, his chances are zero. Why? Because we have too many programs where we are involved with youth, and we just will not take the chance on one bad apple ruining the entire organization. The good of the Order as a whole is more important than the good of any one person who is not a Knight of Columbus.
As for those who wish to bash us, let it be known that some of them may be former Catholics who have fallen away from the Faith, or have otherwise abandoned organized religion in favor of whatever suits them at the moment.
It should also be understood by those with lesser minds that the Church does not run the Order. All of us ARE practicing Roman Catholics, and those of my personal acquaintance are all upstanding men. All of us are willing to do whatever we can to help the Church, but if you ever bother to read the Constitution, you will find our 4 main reasons for being. We were formed in 1882 as an answer to the rampant anti-Catholic bigotry that was destroying the lives of Catholic Immigrants...who came to this country legally, I might add... by making life so miserable that Catholic men were dying much younger than the rest of the population. How so? In those days, the only jobs available to Catholic men were dangerous, low-paid, and menial. These were the jobs that nobody else would take. Catholic men took those jobs just to have something for their families. But leaving behind widows and children with no means of support threatened to destroy the Catholic community in the USA. Father Michael J. McGivney himself was orphaned at a young age, and that's why he proposed that they work together, rather than each man going his own separate way. On March 29, 1882, the CT legislature issued our Charter.
Since then, our works have been the stuff of legend. Last year, we donated roughly $170 MILLION to a host of charitable and worthwhile causes, and provided 70,000,000 hours of volunteer time.
I defy ANYONE to match THAT record!
I don't deny the Knights have done good work. My husband is a past Grand Knight and a current Knight. This weekend he collected for Kovar with two of our grandsons.
ReplyDeleteThat does not excuse the Knights' shameful practice of allowing politicians who are "manifest grave sinners" by their political actions to remain Knights in good standing. On top of that, Supreme has done everything possible to put roadblocks in the way of councils that try to discipline their own. I refer you to Gerry Bruen's description of a case expelling a Knight that resulted in Supreme changing the by-laws to make it MORE DIFFICULT to take such actions.
http://www.amazon.com/Errant-Knight-Scandal-Prochoice-Knights-ebook/dp/B0069DE0VC
It was shameful, it continues to be shameful, and no amount of whitewash can cover it up. The left hand undoes what the right hand is doing.
I speak as a former 4th Degree Member of the Knights Of Columbus. I could see the hand writing on the wall from the very beginning of this cabalistic organization of men exclusively. The secret meetings with skulls and chanting made no sense to me at all. The unflinching worship of the state in all it's sinful actions also made me suspect all was not well. When I refused to stand for the pledge of allegiance the other members all began to shun me and that is when I left and got the living heaven for me out of that satanic organization!
ReplyDeleteI think you have misinterpreted whatever the fourth degree involves. The skull is a traditional reminder of death. You often see paintings of saints (like Mary Magdalene) with a skull. Much as I criticize the failure of the Knights to abide by their own standards and discipline their publicly scandalous members, there is nothing "satanic" about the organization. I do think, however, that an organization founded to help the poor reflects some misjudgment in paying their senior executive 1.5 million dollars a year. I hope he tithes at least 10%.
ReplyDelete1) NOTHING is "secret" (except for the degree ceremonials to keep their faith based lessons strong and impactful. 2) No secrets about our work. All is open and above boards. 3) Many have been suspended for wrongful action or crimes as they should be upon proper undeniable proof. However, since it is not ours as men to judge, we must defer to the hierarchy to pass that determination on to us before removal (difficult to protect the innocent? YES. Impossible? -NO. 4) Women- Knights helped start the Catholic Daughters of America. Can't make change to admit them to be fraternal members due to complexities of opening the charter and possible exposure of benefits to ruin or removal by unsympathetic officials etc. Not worth losing the special benefits our members and their families receive just to make a few happy. It would be nice and profitable, but dangerous to all. 5) Supreme Knight donates a lot of his time and money and is paid far less for his immense work than other companies pay their chief executives even at a lower level of responsibility. After all he is running a company awarded "World's Most Ethical" for the past 2 years. Financial strength protects our members and their families. Remember- when started NO commercial companies would provide insurance to "those Catholic- Immigrants" and Venerable Fr. Michael McGivney found a way. Today they are the most highly rated and have no debt whatsoever. Safe, Secure, For Life. We have much to safeguard.
ReplyDeleteComments made by many purporting to be "former Knights" show that they must have been at some other organization's meetings. Skulls and chanting don't occur (except for one as a symbol to remind us of our mortality and often used by the church and saints for the same purpose) Perhaps if they had paid attention and learned the lessons taught they would be less likely to "judge" their fellow man (another lesson taught in the degrees). The lessons learned are to help us prevent the unseemly that some weak men seem to succumb to. Sadly, they also happen to be Knights. Does that mean we stop striving to improve and admonish our fellow man---- NO. Vivat Jesus
ReplyDeletePaychecks come from insurance company profits as does much of the donations made worldwide by the Knights. Insurance members ARE the company and reap great dividends and guaranteed interest. Donations ALL go fir the intended projects when collected. (Insurance company funds and personnel are most often used for administrative purposes so that donations can be fully used for their intended purposes. If one checks far enough they will find this is true. As mentioned, the Supreme Knight receives far less than comparable insurance executives and donates much in time and money to KofC efforts worldwide. We can be proud while we work out the human frailties involved with such a large organization. St. Francis' prayer is a good one to remember here...
ReplyDeleteIt should be noted that in order to suspend a man from his membership in the K of C, it is up to the man's PASTOR to determine if that man is a practical Catholic, or not. It is not our duty to make that determination because we are not Priests!
ReplyDeleteSo who am I to say this? I'm a PGK (3 terms as GK), a PFN, an FDD, a 2-year member of the Supreme Council, and currently serve as 1 of 2 Color Corps Commanders for our Assembly.
I would ask why the Church has not been more forthcoming when dealing with these politicians such as Nancy Pelosi... who has the nerve to call herself a "practicing and respectful Catholic". I asked my own Pastor why we have not excommunicated our now-former Congresswoman based on her repeated votes in favor of abortion. His reply? "Well, some people 'excommunicate' themselves".
The problem is NOT in the Order of the Knights of Columbus. We...as an organization... do not get involved in Partisan Politics. In other words, we do not support...as an organization... ANY candidate for ANY office. Individual Knights are free, of course, to support whoever they wish, but they may NOT use the name of the K of C in doing so.
By the way, I also happen to be a State Representative (Republican), and have been endorsed by Right to Life in my state... and will probably earn a 100% score from them when they compile their voting records for this session of the House in my state.
About 20 years ago, a politician from a nearby city was chastised by his Council for voting wrong on an abortion bill. His position was that his constituents had written to him repeatedly asking for him to vote accordingly. He did that (take note that he lived in a very liberal city, dominated by Democrats), and that angered the men in his Council. However, since the man's Pastor did not rule on the question of the man being a Practical Catholic, the Council was not able to do anything.
On the matter of throwing a man out of the Order who has been accused of a felony, the rule is quite clear: Until there is a VERDICT we do not throw anyone out. We know all too well that people are often accused but are found to be Not Guilty. Suspending his membership would be penalizing a man who has not been convicted of anything! We won't do that. The reason for that is obvious. Every person is considered innocent until and unless he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Until the verdict is rendered...and the punishment announced...the man remains a member. However... and I did see this happen a number of years ago.... one Priest was accused in Court of inappropriate behavior with 2 altar servers. Once the court found him guilty and announced his punishment (35-70 years!), a letter was sent to the Supreme Council, and he was summarily kicked out! Another letter was sent to Rome, and the Pope laicized (de-frocked) the former Priest.
Sorry for the long message here, but it was necessary to address some of the issues that have been brought up here.
Thank you for your pro-life work. Would that all Knights could say what you did. Having said that, I still think the Knights are delinquent in acting on their own charter. My husband, a past grand knight, the current grand knight, and a number of former grand knights in the council agree. It is amazing to me to see the Knights suspend members for not paying dues, but saying they are helpless to act on men commit grave public scandal. Certainly the pastor should be involved and in the case described by Gerry Bruen that happened.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Errant-Knight-Scandal-Prochoice-Knights-ebook/dp/B0069DE0VC
It would be hard to imagine a good pastor refusing to take action if his Knights council were exhorting him to do it. In my experience, most of what happens in a parish involves lots of works by the Knights. Good for them. But the first work of MEN is to defend the innocent from the wolves and the barbarians with their long knives. Unfortunately, a number of those barbarians call themselves Knights of Columbus giving themselves Catholic cover for their evil actions.
I totally agree with this. Our GK sees nothing wrong with gays adopting children. I am involved with political prolife causes which our council refuses to fund because they don't want to lose their tax status, which is fair enough, but the result is that they have internalized the prochoice ideology as a consequence. I have decided not to quit, however, because I have a great relationship with our Sacred Heart Cathedral priest as a security guy over COVID where married men were afraid to attend Mass at all. I also attract younger people because I am a marathon man, and I don't look or act like a boomer. I am the minute taker and newsletter editor who gets constantly cancelled by the GK, who knows very well I have more real friends in the church and the prolife community in PG than he has and he knows I could quit tomorrow and they would have nobody to run the meetings, so in the end, I get what I want. I also have a great relationship with our traditionalist Bishop and in the end, I tell the youth who need funds to go to the bishop, who will force the council to assign money. I am used to working in a corrupt, proabortion government institution which the KofC is also and I can get things done for my cause regardless. Sort of like Wiley Coyote and Roadrunner. It's a game you have to play in this End Times world and I am used to it. It's almost fund!
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