Get over it!The Dangers of Attacking the Novus Ordo
I love the traditional Latin Mass. I go on an annual Ignatian Retreat where the FSSP retreat master celebrates the Latin Mass every day. When I can, I attend the Tridentine Mass at St. John the Baptist in Front Royal. But I will not jump on the bandwagon attacking the Novus Ordo no matter how many folks claiming to be real Catholics call me deluded. I'll stick with the Church even in this time of mass confusion.
If the ordinary form of the Mass is NOT valid, Jesus truly left us orphans, since the extraordinary rite is not readily available in many places -- not to mention the fact that most priests don't know how to say it.
I've certainly been to some English Masses where the priest played fast and loose with the liturgy. I've even been to a few when traveling where I even questioned the validity of the Mass. But that was when the celebrant made the decision to omit or add to the approved rubrics of Holy Mother Church.
Yes, there are some very real problems with the ordinary rite. All one needs to do to recognize that is to read the Ottaviani Intervention about the history of the new form and the deliberate watering down of the theology explicit in the Tridentine Mass by Vatican II rebels. It was a tragedy.
However, there is nothing to be gained by attacking the Novus Ordo. As Fr. Charles Nwora Okeke points out in the linked article above we need to "focus on living our faith." That seems good advice to me. He also points out that many of the defects are due to the priest, not the form:
It is wrong to define a liturgical Rite on the basis of defects encountered among individual priests and members of a congregation. A Rite represents a church tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. There are about 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today. Of these, the ordinary form of the Latin Rite, despicably referred to as the Novus Ordo by some people, has been the target of unremitting negative attacks. The way the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered in the ‘Novus Ordo” is stipulated in the Roman Missal. What is to be said by the priest is printed in black and what he is to do is printed in red. If the rubric were followed, as stipulated, the ‘Novus Ordo’ mass would be reverential as it is meant to be.Father also points out that if you don't like the Latin rite in the ordinary form, you can choose from the numerous other rites approved by the Church in addition to the extraordinary form.
One morning this week we had a Communion service led by the permanent deacon because our pastor was away. It made me realize how blessed we are to have daily Mass -- in any form. So many places have only occasional Masses. When we were traveling in Canada last Fall, we could find almost no daily Masses. We, on the other hand, are blessed with the opportunity to attend a reverent Mass every single day.
Do I wish we had the Tridentine more available? Yes. Am I going to moan and groan and complain about what we don't have rather than thank God for what we do have? NO! If you are blessed to have a faithful priest who says a reverent daily Mass in the ordinary form thank God by receiving Him in the Eucharist as often as possible. That is the best way any of us can show our love for the God who called us into being and remains with us in all the tabernacles of the world.
Blessed be God forever!
Mere "validity" is setting the bar kind of low....I blame the Novus Ordo for a good part of the collapse of the Faith today - the understanding that the Mass is first and foremost a sacrifice has been lost; likewise the purpose of priesthood. Communion in the hand is icing on the cake. All of the good ends that the Novus Ordo promised to deliver never materialized....it's been a disaster and it is rightfully criticized.
ReplyDelete" You may not like it but the Novus Ordo is valid"
ReplyDeleteSome are, Most are not. . One concern of mine is that most NOM Priests makes no attempt or are oblivious to the Mass as being a Sacrifice.They refer to It as a Eucharistic Meal or the "Supper of the Lord" or the Consecrated Species as the 'Holy Bread of Jesus' or something equally bizarre. They have no concept of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, being a " Sacrifice". This misconception is compounded by the almost universal abuse of refusing to Genuflect before the Tabernacle/Blessed Sacrament at any time before during or after the (m)ass. This as it is, is a failure to comply with the intent of the Church thereby making their little fantasy not Valid.
P.S. - which way does Fr. Charles Nwora Okeke face when saying the Novus Ordo? He may well be one of the priest whose "individual defects" are part of the problem.
ReplyDeleteI don't disagree, Edison, that validity sets a low bar. But some are claiming that the N.O. is invalid by its nature. Since several Eucharistic miracles have occurred with hosts consecrated at N.O. Masses, I find that hard to believe. I would prefer the Mass had not changed by I agree with Cardinal Sarah that some changes were good -- the expanded Scripture readings, for example.
ReplyDeleteGeoff, maybe I live in a bubble, but in my diocese MOST N.O. Masses are said with reverence and clear recognition of the sacrifice. (Diocese of Arlington) There are a few loony-tune priests and I avoid those parishes. The last Mass I went to away from my home parish (in Fredericksburg, VA at St. Mary's) was very reverent, good homily, Latin hymn sung after Communion (Salve Regina), and an impressive organist. The congregation all sang -- beautifully (no Kumbaya songs). The sign of peace was subdued. It was an edifying service and I praised the priest after Mass.
Our Lady of Good Success said that we would live in a time of great compromise. That is what we have settled to do - compromise the Truth. If we study how the Mass has been attacked through the centuries, we would defend the Tridentine Mass. Martin Luther attacked the Mass, with the Freemasons supporting him in Germany. Queen Elizabeth (daughter of King Henry VIII) changed the Catholic Mass for her country in the hopes that Protestants and Catholics would both be happy but many Catholics DIED for the True Sacrificial Mass including St. Margaret Clithrow and St. Edmund Campion rather than attend this "New Mass". Our "New Mass" is worse than Martin Luther's Mass and Queen Elizabeth's Anglican Mass and was created by the Freemasons who infiltrated the Church. Check out who Msgr. Annibale Bugnini was - the master mind of this New Mass. We can see the destruction of the Faith with the New Mass - How many more Church closings do we need to wake up! Recommended reading: The Mass by Rev. Joseph A Dunney and The Problems with the New Mass by Rama P Coomaraswamy. May Our Lady of the Blessed Sacrament pray for our heroic virtue in defending the Sacrificial Mass that the Council of Trent defended against Martin Luther and all Protestants.
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying the Novus Ordo is invalid?
ReplyDeleteIn agreement with "b of mary" there is a body of credible, written works which support the contention that there are grave doubts about the validity of the Novus Ordo mass (as implemented in 1970). A most recent work recently published by Loreto Press ("The Destruction of the Roman Rite") is a case in point. Having recently read much of this body-----which included excerpts from Bugnini's 1000+ page tome detailing, with pride, the way in which he maneuvered the conversion of the Mass of a millennium to a service which is almost indistinguishable from a Lutheran one (merely retaining some of the Catholic Trappings)----I have serious doubts and have ceased attending.
ReplyDeleteMore than one Marian Apparition has warned of the Church being attacked from its top. Forewarned is forearmed. And while most of us in the US are deprived of an unequivocally valid Catholic Mass we need not despair as long as the BVM, the Paraclete, our Guardian Angel and our Patron Saints are with us.
Sorry so late in response. According to the Church, we need proper matter, form and intention for the Sacrament to be valid. As we all know, the form of the Consecration was changed (fixed) by Pope Benedict (before he left) to address all those who cried about this flaw in the words of Consecration. He changed it back to "many" from "all" BUT - the words of Consecration are still different in the Tridentine rite from the Novus Ordo rite. Is it valid? In some churches they add more than flour and water to the matter of the hosts. Is it valid? And as we know the intention of many priests may not be there - why? They do not believe in the Real Presence. Is it valid?
ReplyDeleteI won't stick around to see but I see the "wonderful fruits" it has brought - you will find me at the Tridentine Mass. Sorry!
Like I said - if you study and read the words of those involved in the creation of the Novus Ordo - you will see that it was their intention to horribly alter the rite which they are suppose to pass down from generation to generation - not alter.
The picture of Pope Paul VI stands out in my mind of him standing with the Protestant ministers that were invited to help in this "New" Mass. The saints of old (who died for this Mass) I am sure were delighted to see from up above.
May we return to all the Traditions that were suppose to be passed down to us but were stolen.
Our Lady of Fatima - pray for us!
ReplyDeleteThe Mass of Paul VI, at least when said in Latin according to its rubrics, doubtless also on occasion otherwise, perhaps even often, is validly consecrated.
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But it is a Clericalist Mass imposed on the faithful who neither sought nor wanted it, & was fairly obviously devised by enemies of the Faith who hoped by this means to destroy that Faith - confident, if they could dupe Montini, that believing bishops, priests & layfolk would go along out of reverence for the Pope & Papacy, which was still rather vibrant back then.
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To be sure the change was central to a majority of layfolk worldwide abandoning the Faith, but this was of no concern, likely was amusing, to the folk who'd devised & imposed it; & striking was the ferocity of their hatred for the Mass that had sustained the Faith & the faithful through many centuries & many struggles.
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The reason for the demonic quality of that ferocity is not hard to discern. The Mass codified by St. Pius V, but in fact going back at least as far as St. Gregory the Great & doubtless further, was a genuine & organic expression of the Faith that had risen from the devotion of the faithful.
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Paul's Mass instead upholds Clericalism & Clerical power by & as the very nature & principle of its imposition; & is thus alone (tho there are other reasons) why there will be no revival of the Faith until that rite is repudiated.
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Nothing in the teaching of the Faith prevents any Catholic from holding this view, nor indeed from holding that every Catholic ought to insist on the restoration of the historical Mass in the Latin rite, & the suppression of the manifestly destructive fruits of the Clericalist aberration.
August 6, 2017 at 1:34 AM
I don't disagree with those who believe the Tridentine Mass is superior and that the changes in the Mass were done by men with an agenda.
ReplyDeleteMy only point is that the Novus Ordo under most circumstances is a valid Mass. If it isn't, then how could the Eucharistic miracles take place?
https://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2016/12/summer-2016-newsletter-now-on-line.html
If transubstantian did NOT occur then there is no body of Christ. It seems like there are more and more miracles taking place from Masses that some are claiming to be invalid. So if it's just bread, why would it become flesh and blood? It makes no sense.
I'm all for a return to a more reverent Mass -- both the Tridentine and the ad orientem Latin Novus Ordo. But I just don't see most people demanding it. And I don't believe God wants to starve His children. So, by all means, let's promote and work for the extraordinary form, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or turn those who prefer the ordinary form into bad guys. Some of the attitudes of those who prefer the Tridentine strike me as self-righteous and superior. That can't possibly be pleasing to the Master who was "meek and humble of heart."
Mary Ann:
ReplyDelete...." I dont disagree with those who believe the Tridentine Mass is superior and that the changes in the Mass were done by men with an agenda..."
May I ask why on Earth would you entertain even for a moment giving any credence whatsoever to a (m)ass that is inferior and concocted by men with an agenda?
The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was inspired by the Holy Ghost and evolved from the time of Our Lord and codified by the Council of Trent. The Novus Ordo Missae was fabricated about 50 years ago by men with an agenda.
Collusion ( a big word in America these days) by one Archbishop Annabile Bugnini and a cohort of six Protestant ministers is worth you investigating. At the time I was about 25 years old . Let me tell you it was well documented (with photographs) in both the Secular and Catholic newspapers at the time. I know...I was there.
From a cosmic viewpoint, creation was almost completely deprived of the true Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (The Sacrificial offering of the Son to the Father in reparation and atonement for the sins of mankind) The current state of the Church is testament to the ensuing Turmoil.
Eucharistic Miracles like the avalanche of Marian Apparitions lately ( last 40-50 years) should be treated with caution. We should await pronouncement by the Vatican. Good Luck with that at the moment however with the aforementioned turmoil and confusion emanating from the Vatican. I dont discount Eucharistic Miracles, I just urge caution.
"Some of the attitudes of those who prefer the Tridentine strike me as self righteous and superior."
I dont think myself as self righteous or superior. I do think, as you concede, that the Tridentine Latin rite Mass is far superior than the man centered NOM. I embraced the introduction of the 'new' (m)ass with much gusto and for the next 45 odd years accepted every novelty and every nuance inflicted upon us by almost every Priest and Bishop, These novelties although well intentioned at the time eventually descended into abuse of the Sacred Rite of the Mass. I was only about 7-8 years ago that my Family and I were blessed with the rediscovery of the 'Greatest thing this side of Heaven' (I forget who said that)
"May I ask why on Earth would you entertain even for a moment giving any credence whatsoever to a (m)ass that is inferior and concocted by men with an agenda?"
ReplyDeleteHow many people can attend Mass in the Tridentine form? Even if they can find a Mass an hour away to attend on Sunday, what about daily Mass? I go to daily Mass and I wish we had an FSSP parish we could attend for daily Mass. But we don't. And so, we thank God for what we DO have, a reverent Novus Ordo.
"I don't think myself as self righteous or superior."
I can tell from your tone, Geoff, that you are not. Thank you for your courteous comments.
I have many friends who only go to the Tridentine Mass who are wonderful, faith-filled, humble Catholics. They would never criticize or condemn their neighbors who attend the N.O. or treat them like second class Catholics because they prefer it. I love these dear ones and am grateful for them.
I also know some Tridentine-attending Catholics who call me an apostate, not only for rejecting the N.O. but for being a Natural Family Planning teacher. Everything with which they disagree is evil. One Irish reader (whom I no longer post) continually sends me attack comments warning that I'm going to hell and I better wake up. That's the kind of so-called traditionalists I'm talking about. They give traditionalism a bad name and they certainly don't win anyone over with their ad hominem attacks.
I have no problem arguing (in the Socratic sense) with anyone who addresses issues and is courteous in debate. And I give their views serious consideration. I will not "dialogue" with people who use ugly personal attacks.
If I had the choice of an N.O. parish or a Tridentine-only parish it would be no contest. I don't. I pray that someday I do. For now, I go to the Tridentine when I can, and I thank God that I have a reverent little N.O. parish in the meantime.
Further to mine 2.41 on the 8/8/2017...
ReplyDeleteMy Comment, " From a cosmic viewpoint..........the current state of the Church is testament to the ensuing turmoil."
Do we really need any anymore convincing as to the terrible state of the Church than the Following? Also as the World hovers on the brink of a third World War, starting with events of North Korea...All this exactly 100 years after Fatima...The World is bereft of the Graces that Flow from the True Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and have been for the last 50 odd years. And just where is the leadership from the Vatican?
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/confusion-division-in-church-shows-we-may-be-in-the-end-times-cardinal-burk
You must remember that any of you with a choice are lucky to have options. My sister gets ONE Mass in English every other week within 75 miles on the California/Nevada border where she lives, the opposite week it's in Spanish. Most parishes and their leaders are trying to do right by their flocks.
ReplyDeleteMary Ann and Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYes I do see your point...Such is the state of the Church currently many good sincere and devout Catholics are deprived of the saving Graces of the The Holy Sacrifice...And this begs the question, does He indeed 'leave us orphans?' It is a hard and difficult situation we (The Church) find ourselves. For that reason I feel that some Graces do in fact flow from an imperfect (m)ass. Not because it is an imperfect source but in spite of that fact.
I am aware that imperfection does not equate to illicit.
Those that sincerely and honestly seek Our Lord will not find themselves wanting. We will be sustained. It is difficult for me to actually concede the NOM Mass Valid although from a theological perspective I concede my limitations in this area. I know of many Priests who are Reverent and offer a 'Sacrificial' NOM. Sadly I know of many,many who do not.
We look to the time when Her Immaculate Heart will win out as promised.
Here in Western Australia we are only marginally better off in that there are only two place that I am aware of that provide the Tridentine Latin Rite of the Holy Sacrifice, In Both cases it requires a drive of at least 45 minutes. My son and his Family have an hour each way to travel. This makes daily Mass out of the question most times.We are Blessed.
God Bless you both and all in like circumstances
The validity of their service is of little matter, when their orders are invalid
ReplyDeleteMaking a statement like that, sheriffshooter, is worthless with no evidence. Let's see you make a case for it if you can.
ReplyDelete