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Thursday, August 24, 2023

My Answer to Comments on The Luminous Mysteries From August 18th

The Transfiguration
by Theophanes the Greek, 15th Century

The original post is HERE. Before I begin I want to say that no one commented on what was in the post itself. Did they read it? 

In addition, at the Transfiguration, Christ made Peter, James and John's faith stronger so that they might not lose their belief in Him during His Passion and death. "He confirmed them in their faith"...made their faith stronger, not by Confirmation of the Holy Spirit Who was to come at Pentecost, but by enabling them to see Him as the Savior who was prefigured by the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah) of the Old Testament. 

Because of the Transfiguration, Peter, James and John did not lose their faith in Him. Just as there's more than one reference to the Holy Eucharist in the entire Bible, both OT and NT - several, in fact - there's also more than one reference for Confirmation and all the rest of the Seven Sacraments.

The following is my response:

Fourteen years before I became a Catholic I hadn’t been to the protestant church of my youth in years, and hadn’t spoken to God in over a decade. One night, in complete desperation, I breathed a prayer to Him. I breathed that prayer – just one line – and He heard me. I didn’t know anything about the Trinity or the Blessed Mother or much of anything. I just knew God was our Father so I prayed to Him.

The next day the trajectory of my life changed forever. The phone rang and it was a friend asking if I wanted to gallop race horses for Clay Camp (back in the day when Union-Camp was a big company). I told him yes, but I rode hunters and jumpers, not race horses. He said, “Well, let me put Clay on the phone. He’s right here.” Mr Camp asked if I’d be at his barn the next morning. Again, I said that I’d never ridden a race horse. He said, “That’s OK. We’ll teach you.” And they did.

The years went by. I was 34, had children and was divorced, still living in Virginia. At the time I was very sick, had to have an operation and thought I was going to die. One night after the children were asleep I sat crying in the living room and told God I was terrified at what would happen to my children if I died. Who would take care of them? Who would love them, educate them?

Again, God heard me. The Rosary entered my life, sent by God. A racing friend who was a doctor gave me a Rosary a few days after that prayer. It had been blessed by Pope Pius XII. My friend had bought it when he was a teenager visiting Italy with his family.

He told me to say an Our Father on the large beads and a Hail Mary on the smaller ones. I asked what an Our Father was because I had only heard of it as the Lord’s Prayer. Then I asked what a Hail Mary was. The children and I started saying the Rosary although I had no idea what a “mystery” was until a few friends gave me pamphlets on the Rosary.

These actions disturbed Lucifer very much. He thought he’d have me in his clutches when I died but apparently my children and I learning the Rosary was too much. It infuriated him. Things happened that I never tell anyone because they wouldn’t believe me (years later I told a priest and he definitely believed me), but just let’s say that I had never been so completely terrified in my life.

Finally it dawned on me – the Rosary…blessed by a pope. It was the answer to make all this stop. So I took the Rosary one night, held it in my hands and – in the name of Jesus – demanded the devil or evil spirits leave me alone. I held the Rosary toward the manifestation(s) and could literally hear them scream in terror as they flew in a wave out the bedroom window. They never came back. They left me alone and didn’t bother me anymore.

So I know the power of the Rosary. Also, I know God and the Blessed Mother heard every prayer, and helped me in my complete ignorance. I know the Blessed Mother understood that we were trying to pray the Rosary even though we didn’t do it right. I didn’t say the prayers of exorcism right but it worked. I didn’t make the “approved motions or actions” of exorcism, but what I did worked. Saying the name of Jesus and showing the Rosary worked and I wasn’t even a Catholic at the time.

I’ll continue to say the Luminous Mysteries. There’s no Church law saying I’ll go straight to hell for praying them. These days everyone is arguing about everything. One person says one thing, another person says another. The SSPX says one thing, Opus Dei says another. Prior popes said one thing, Francis says another, so at this point no one knows what to do, who’s right and who isn’t. What’s a Catholic to do? Who should we believe?

As a result, I’ve come to the conclusion that other people can do what they want and I’ll do what I think is best for me. I’m certainly not going to listen to anonymous’ heated statements about JPII, even if he (anonymous) is SSPX priest Fr Pezzutti. I loved JPII.

Of course I’d like to be able to pray the Rosary perfectly…never stumble over the words or forget that it’s Tuesday and I pray a few Glorious Mysteries before remembering I need to be saying the Sorrowful.

All I know is that I’m more mature than when I was 34 and prayed the Rosary all wrong. Now I more understand the proper way to say it, however believe it’s the intention in our hearts that count…the love we have for God and the Blessed Mother.

At the end of his life St John said that love is all that matters…just love. His own disciples tried to get him to stop saying the same thing over and over but he wouldn’t. Anonymous can tell me over and over how terrible it is to say the Luminous Mysteries but he won’t change my mind.

He won’t change my mind because I love the Luminous Mysteries and I can send God and the Blessed Mother all the love in my being while I pray them, and right or wrong, they will hear me.

52 comments:

  1. Really enjoyed that post, especially the point you made about God hearing you even though you didn’t pray perfectly.

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  2. You should not do what you want to do. You should do what’s actually Catholic, whether you want to do it or not. The actual Rosary has precisely 15 mysteries. This is what was given to us, and we’re not free to change it. The “Luminous Mysteries” are wonderful indeed, but they’re no part of the actual Rosary. Study this:

    The Twenty Mysteries of the Rosary? by John Vennari
    https://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20021108_The_Twenty_Mysteries_of_the_Rosary.html

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    1. Agree - mysteries but not Rosary

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  3. A long time ago I think my angel was speaking to me, saying "why don't you wave your rosary at them" I thought it was a mocking demon. I see I was wrong. Thanks so much.

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  4. Jeremiah,

    Are we free only to pray the prayers "given to us?" Is it a sin to pray the Luminous Mysteries or even to make up our own prayers since they weren't "given to us." Are the saints who wrote prayers wrong because they weren't "given to us" by Jesus or Mary? Was St. Bernard wrong to write the Memorare? Was Cardinal Merry del Val wrong to write the Litany of Humility? There are many prayers that were not "given to us." I will pray those that help me in the spiritual life.

    I always felt there was a huge gap between the finding of the child in the temple and the agony in the garden. I will continue to pray the Luminous mysteries and meditate on those events in the life of Christ because they help me to "know Him, love Him, and serve Him."

    Do you think wrangling over this pleases Mary who loves us to meditate on the life of her Son?

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    1. "Are we free only to pray the prayers given to us?"

      Of course not. And surely we all know that.

      Are we free to add or change the Our Father? The Hail Mary? The Memorare? No.... otherwise it's no longer the Our Father etc.

      Are we free to dismiss the advice from our priests? Absolutely. Is it generally a good idea? I would think not. But after six decades of the NO, well, it's become the norm and even often necessary. Case in point, when I was still in the NO the priest in his sermon told us of a lesbian who came to him for absolution after going to 5 other priests who told her it wasn't a sin. So yes, I guess we've been conditioned to pick and choose what advice we will follow. Sound familiar? It should because that IS the error of the SSPX. The untenable recognize and resist position, now filtering down to their flock.

      Is praying the Luminous Mysteries a salvation issue? Probably not. Hopefully not. But then why not just stay in the NO? Keep in mind though that the SSPX's official stance is the NO Mass is dangerous for your soul. Of course, you're free to ignore that warning too.


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    2. Prayer is always Holy.

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  5. Even the 15 mysteries of the so-called Dominican rosary have fluctuated over time: they were not "given" like the Tablets of The Law in fixed form.

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  6. I'm glad to see your article. Quite frankly, I had never heard of the Luminous mysteries mirroring the sacraments, but it makes sense and should offend no one. At pretty much the same time, I seemed to have kicked a hornet's nest at the SSPX Youtube channel video by defending the option of praying the Luminous mysteies, even though I don't pray them regularly myself. I mentioned the Brigittine rosary, which Fr. Pezzutti insists is a chapelet, not THE rosary, but the bottom line is that no one is obligated to accept any part of private revelation, which includes the rosary, as venerable as it is. Even the Hail Mary has changed over time. We traditional Catholics can be just as bad as any other group with a "my way or the highway" attitude. We fool ourselves into thinking that we are justified in this for religious matters because we tell ourselves we are trying to please God. Rubbish. Most often, at least in my experience, it's hubris with a thin veneer of piety. If you find value in praying the Luminous mysteries, don't let anyone dissuade you.

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  7. Sick of this debate; I see the Luminous as a fifth wheel. Just as there are 150 psalms in the Old Testament, there are 150 Hail Marys in Our Lady's Psalter. It's complete. If more is better, then why not write 50 more Psalms for the Old Testament? You wouldn't dream of it because they're complete. But if you want to say the Luminous mysteries, knock yourself out. No one is stopping you. Are you saying them to please Our Lady or to please yourself? If you sent your son to the deli to buy you a tuna sandwich and he comes home with ham and Swiss because it's more or it's better, is he pleasing you or himself? But sure, say the Luminous mysteries...

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    1. I have zero idea what you mean by this comment. All prayer is Holy. Meditating on Christ Baptism, His first miracle...that's Holy.

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  8. How about an eight Sacrament? Something to fill in between Confession and Last Rites? Something's missing.
    .

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  9. The so-called Luminous Mysteries are clumsy and awkward. And their imposition in the weekly schedule is doubly so. Apparently JPII was already getting senile when he came up with this idea.

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  10. Everything that stems from conciliar church is not good. I will pray you see the truth. This site worth studying. Blessings!
    https://catholiccandle.neocities.org/priests/sspx-to-aid-a-deal-i-e-a-personal-prelature-with-pope-francis-and-the-false-conciliar-church-the-sspx-relies-on-the-big-lie

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  11. This is not a doctrinal issue. It is a devotion. Call the Luminous Mysteries the chaplet of Christ's life from the finding in the temple until the agony in the garden. Does that satisfy your sensitivities?

    This kind of wrangling over non-essentials is what gives traditional Catholics a bad name.

    I stand by St. Augustine.

    In essentials unity.
    In non-essentials freedom.
    In all things charity.

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  12. I agree with you Mary Ann! Very well put! The Luminous Mysteries are so wonderfully synoptic and fill the gap nicely between Jesus in the Temple and in the Garden of Gesthemane. And as such they are a great way to deepen our meditations as to the lives of Jesus and Mary. Isn't that, in no small part, why we pray the Rosary in the first place? Great subjects for contemplation abound! The first mystery: John the Baptist:"He [Jesus] must increase I must decrease; the second: 'Do whatever he tells you" the third: striving towards the Kingdom of Heaven; the fourth: "It is the Lord!" conversing with Moses and Elijah and how St. Peter would later write "we did not follow cleverly devised myths"; and finally the Fifth: My flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. The new and everlasting covenant. "Do this in memory of me".

    Would that the Introduction of the Luminous Mysteries by John Paul II in 2002 was the worst thing that happened to the church in the last 60+ years!!! Sad to say, its not, not by a long shot!! God Bless!

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  13. Prayer, all prayer to Jesus, about Jesus is Holy. So many are losing the understanding that most of these prayers were not discussed by Christ. So. Just say the Our Father and keep safe.

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  14. In essentials unity.
    In non-essentials freedom.
    In all things charity.

    This works wonderful.....when there is a pope to unify us. Who decides what is or is not essential? You? Me? Francis? Burke? Schneider? SSPX? Sedes? If JPII was a true pope and now Saint, the SSPX should submit to his authority and recognize and promote the new and improved Rosary. Protestants have the same problem; what is or is not essential, because they have no authority, no pope. Sadly, we are in the same situation, EXCEPT we have the true faith handed down to us up until V2.

    NO/Indults say there is a pope and their actions reflect this.

    SSPX say there is a pope but their actions deny their words.

    Sedes say there is no pope and their actions reflect this.

    One of these positions is not like the others. Eventually you'll have to choose a side. NO with Francis, false ecumenism, religious liberty, the bastardized Mass (as Abp. Lefebvre called it) and all the horrible fruit of V2 or with the sedes. There is no middle ground. There is no such thing as partial communion with The Catholic Church.

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  15. JPII was the ecumenical pope who excommunicated Archbishop Lefebvre for doing the same thing he did himself. I used to think he was a living saint, because the Press told me he was. I’ve learned a bit since then. Our Lady’s Psalter has 150 Aves. I try not to criticize or “one up” Our Lady’s prayer devotional. If you want to pray some other prayer, go for it. There are thousands upon thousands. I prefer to leave her prayer alone. The thing is, the rosary isn’t supposed to be a narrative of Jesus’ life in total. That’s impossible. It’s a Marian devotion.

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  16. I agree. Just like divine mercy devotion isn't but still false. New Church nonsense. I know so many people who won't leave NO just because they think divine mercy devotion is "so real". They all trust "priests" who masked and/or deathvaxxed themselves and encouraged others to do as well. I know over 70 folks dead from vaxx. Prayers for the deceived. All the NO popes are bad popes M including jpii.

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  17. Worth reading
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/d018rpLuminousMysteries.html

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  18. "The SSPX says one thing, Opus Dei says another. Prior popes said one thing, Francis says another, so at this point no one knows what to do, who’s right and who isn’t. What’s a Catholic to do? Who should we believe? ... I loved JPII."

    JPII made McCarrick and Bergoglio bishops and cardinals (at the same consistory). All who bemoan our 'bad' bishops, cardinals and priests and brothels instead of seminaries need to love JPII (same as they love Francis who was empowered by JPII). JPII did nothing about Maciel but take money (same w/McCarrick). JPII sainted Escriva/Opus Dei. JPII excommunicated +Lefebvre/SSPX.

    Those who say there is a gap in the rosary should realize that the synoptic gospels cover one year in Jesus' life (of 33) and the Gospel of St. John three years (of 33). The coverage of this time period is also very uneven and mysterious. Sure what we need is some VCII pope to fill in the missing gaps.

    To my mind the first set of mysteries focus on the Incarnation. The second set on the Passion. The third set on Eternal Life. The luminous mysteries, like VCII, focus on this life. The Kingdom on Earth; but Jesus said My kingdom is not of this world. The sacrament dog does not hunt.

    The transfiguration can have a personal meaning for you--as to getting into the state of grace--and is something worthy of contemplation no doubt.

    https://douglawrence.wordpress.com/2010/11/02/st-catherine-of-siena-describes-the-image-of-a-soul-in-the-state-of-grace/

    Mormons are Gnostics.
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2011/08/how-can-i-respond-when-my-friends-say-that-no-man-can-see-god?lang=eng

    But it is nothing to the resurrection or the beatific vision.

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  19. In reference to the fourth mystery, added by *Pope* John Paul II to that given to St Dominic by Our Lady I find myself in agreement with Bp Strickland -

    “It may be that some will label as schismatics those who disagree with the changes being proposed [at the Synod on Synodality]. Be assured, however, that no one who remains firmly upon the plumb line of our Catholic faith is a schismatic. … Standing firm does not mean we are seeking to leave the Church. Instead, those who would propose changes to that which cannot be changed seek to commandeer Christ’s Church, and they are indeed the true schismatics.”
    (Bishop Strickland - Tyler Tx, Aug 23 letter to his Faithful)

    I find the Rosary, as given, perfect in that I can mark my week by it … M, T, W; start over again Th, F, Sa; Su is Glorious except for Christmas (Joyful) and Lent (Sorrowful) - perfect symmetry and daily markers as to where I am in the weeks and the Seasons.

    As to the saying: “In essentials unity.
    In non-essentials freedom.
    In all things charity.” … I don’t think Augustine said that -

    https://www.catholic.com/qa/did-st-augustine-say-this

    That being said - ‘Unity in the essentials’ means “staying on the plumb line” of the Constant Magisterium (which extends from Christ at the beginning to Christ at the end); ‘in all things Charity’ means breathing the air of heaven without which unity with God is impossible; and as to ‘freedom in the non-essentials’, it is my experience that almost everything is ultimately, rather, essential.

    But I have been learning lately that it is far more my job to apply these lessons personally and to live them honestly, silently, invisibly, than it is to convince others to do follow what I think … especially in these little tempests-in-tea pot blog forum debates.

    As you say: In all things - *Charity*.

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    1. From my minimal research, it appears to me the dividing line on this topic is whether the Holy Rosary was given directly to Holy Mother Church through a dogmatic revelatory vision to St Dominic …

      https://catholic-link.org/this-is-why-st-dominic-is-given-credit-for-the-holy-rosary/

      Or whether the Rosary was a popular devotion that developed through time, in the context of which *Pope* (stars for those who have removed him from his Office on their own personal authority and based on personal non-informed, non-juridicial opinion) John Paul II added his own contribution (suggested … non-dogmatic, not required).

      https://www.catholicnh.org/assets/Documents/Worship/Our-Faith/Understanding/Rosary.pdf

      It certainly seems to me that it is better to stick with the Traditional Rosary. It seems perfectly fine to pray the Luminous if one desires.

      One thing about *Pope* John Paul II - he had a strong Marian devotion. And he proclaimed her role, as is proper, solely in the context of her leading everyone to her Son. He was a good Pope. And I don’t really care who disagrees. I venerate him in the context of all Popes who ever lived - in all their various strengths and weaknesses.

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  20. I don't have the wisdom or the authority to determine what is right, what is acceptable, what is pleasing to God when it comes to prayers, music, liturgy, rituals, and sacramental, and saints. What I do know is this: after Vatican II a lot of people thought they had a right to introduce novelty and change and innovation, and just plain corruption of what is and will always be holy. So today I find it hard to know what things in this new "toy box" of activities I should accept and what I should stay away from. What I do know is this: If it was good enough for Catholics five or ten generations ago it is good enough for me. Nothing good was missing from their religion or their practice of the faith. If we begin to justify modern additions where does it stop? Some could no doubt make beautiful heartfelt arguments for Communion in the hand. Worded well with enough sincerity many would be convinced to go along with it and get used to it and feel lost without it. Our precious Catholic Church is not a faith we make up as we go along. And I agree the # of prayers should = the psalms. Period.

    As for JPII, I think his charisma and good looks do not make up for his scandalous failings as pope. I've read The Keys of This Blood by Malachi Martin and I am well aware of the things he believed were possible, but he used the papacy as a personal platform to shape world politics when he should have kept his focus on the enemies within the Church. It was his job to identify corruption and put an end to it, but instead, he promoted it, embraced it, and went along with it. It is easy to say, "I loved JPII." He may have been lovable, but all of us need to recognize the fact the WORST things about Vatican II took off and flourished while he was pope and he stood by grinning and waving at crowds and meeting with politicians and let it happen.

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  21. Mary Ann, you are indeed free to meditate upon the wonderful “Luminous Mysteries.” But any prayer connected to this isn’t part of the actual Rosary. The actual Rosary has precisely 15 mysteries, no more and no less, regardless of what anyone—including a fake pope—says. (An actual pope would never, of course, dream of suggesting that the actual Rosary is deficient.)

    In this age of unprecedented lies and fakery, let us refuse to participate in the madness. Let us refuse to deceive ourselves. Be not afraid to get real; really real.

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  22. The First Luminous Mystery – The Baptism of The Lord

    1 The word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. [Luke 3:2]
    2 And he went into all the region about the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. [Luke 3:3]
    3 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.” [Luke 3:4]
    4 “Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth.” [Luke 3:5]
    5 “And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.” [Luke 3:6]
    6 As the people were in expectation, and all men questioned in their hearts concerning John, whether perhaps he were the Christ, John answered them all: [Luke 3:15]
    7 “I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” [Luke 3:16-17]
    8 Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit
    descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove. [Luke 3:20]
    9 And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.” [Luke 3:21]
    10 The Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to him. [Mark 1:12]

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  23. The Second Luminous Mystery – Jesus’ First Miracle at Cana

    1 On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. [John 2:1 ff]
    2 Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples.
    3 When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
    4 And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”
    5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
    6 Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.
    7 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it.
    8 When the steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward of the feast called the bridegroom.
    9 The steward said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
    10 This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

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  24. The Third Luminous Mystery – Jesus Proclaims The Kingdom of God

    1 Seeing the crowds, Jesus went up on the mountain, and when he sat down his disciples came to him. And he opened his mouth and taught them: [Matthew 5:1-2 ff]
    2 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
    3 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”
    4 “ Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”
    5 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.”
    6 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.”
    7 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
    8 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.”
    9 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
    10 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

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  25. The Fourth Luminous Mystery – The Transfiguration of Jesus

    1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. [Matthew 17:1]
    2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light. [Matthew 17:2]
    3 And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. [Luke 9:30-31]
    4 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep but kept awake, and they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. {Luke 9:32]
    5 And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. [Luke 9:33]
    6 He was still speaking, when lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” [Matthew 17:5]
    7 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces, and were filled with awe. [Matthew 17:6]
    8 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” [Matthew 17:7]
    9 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only. [Matthew 17:8]
    10 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” [Matthew 17:9]

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  26. The Fifth Luminous Mystery – The Institution of The Holy Eucharist at The Last Supper

    1 When it was evening, [Jesus] came with the twelve. [Mark 14:17]
    2 And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them and said, “Take; this is my body.” [Mark 14:22]
    3 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and 3 they all drank of it. And he said to them, “This is my blood of the
    covenant, which is poured out for many.” [Mark 14:24]
    4 “Truly, I say to you, I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.” [Mark 14:25]
    5 And during supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot to betray him, Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all 5 things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God, rose from supper, laid aside his garments, and girded himself with a towel. [John 13:2-3]
    6 Then he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded. [John 13:5]
    7 He came to Simon Peter; and Peter said to him, “Lord, do you wash my feet?” Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not know now, but 7 afterward you will understand.” Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part in me.” [John 13:6-8]
    8 When he had washed their feet, and taken his garments, and resumed his place, he said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you.” [John 13:12-15]
    9 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” [John 13:34- 35]
    10 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples 10 across the Kidron Valley, where there was a garden, which he and his
    disciples entered. [John 18:1]

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  27. These are the scripture verses I use in my reflection on the Luminous Mysteries and I shared them in case anyone else finds that a fruitful approach.

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  28. PS: to correct my typos in the last verse of the Fifth Luminous Mystery, which is a link, of course, to the First Sorrowful Mystery:

    10 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples across the Kidron Valley, where there was a garden, which he and his disciples entered. [John 18:1]

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  29. Ms. Kreitzer, it is a gift!! A gift!!! To have so many Greater Catholics advising you on the allowed prayers.

    Treat it as such./sarc

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  30. Thanks for the chuckle, Dad 29. I am going to pray the Litany of Humility in thanksgiving for all my Catholic brethren. They give me an opportunity to practice patience.

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  31. Pray the Litany of Humility for yourself, Mary Ann. Your stance reveals you to puffed up with great pride. Additionally, listen repeatedly to my recording of Humility of Heart on my Youtube channel.

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  32. You're funny, Jeremiah. Of course the person praying the Litany of Humility is praying for himself or herself.

    Keep in mind that when you point a finger at someone else with an accusation that three fingers are pointing back at yourself. I'll be offering my rosary (sorrowful mysteries) for you and all the folks on this thread this evening including myself. I presume we are all Catholics trying to "know, love, and serve God so we can be happy with Him in heaven."

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  33. I'll pray the Luminous Mysteries for everyone here. Also thank you to Percy for the Scriptural verses. I printed them out.
    Also remember that JPII dismissed Pedro Arupe as Superior General of the Jesuits because of his disobedience. Francis' papacy exactly follows what Arupe did to the Jesuits.
    That is, what Arupe did to the Jesuits, Francis is doing to the Church. I'm sure JPII would not approve.

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  34. "Also remember that JPII dismissed Pedro Arupe as Superior General of the Jesuits because of his disobedience"

    Abp. Lefebvre was excommunicated for disobedience.

    If those of us who believe the Luminous Mysteries are not part of Mary's Psalter took it upon ourselves to make that determination, your criticism would be valid, but we have SSPX and sede clergy to guide us. We, or at least I, am simply passing along what traditional clergy have to say about the matter. SSPXers ought to take up the matter with your chosen clergy instead of getting all indignant with us who simply pass it along. Yikes!

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  35. Like I said, Debbie, you have the freedom to believe what you want while I'll believe what I want. You're a sede...and you point your finger and nag others if they don't believe what you do. You're going to be a busy girl convincing billions of other people on the planet that only you can tell them the secrets of the universe.

    In the deepest part of my conscience I'm an individual just as every other person on the face of the earth. I am my own person. I'm me and I'll continue to be me. You be you, but try not to obstinately make others into your image. We don't have the God-given right to do that. We are not the official judge of other people's internal forum.

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    1. I am so very sorry you cannot see how the SSPX position of R&R is untenable. They have one foot in the NO and the other in sedevacantism. Instead of admitting the hard truth of SVism, they (SSPX hierarchy and clergy) set themselves up as Pope and magisterium of the Catholic Church, but will not admit this. And now you, dear Susan, following the SSPX's position of picking and choosing what to believe, buck up against your own clergy. That is what Protestants do too.

      As a sede, I responded to your post with what the SSPX has to say in regards to the Luminous Mysteries and yet I and others are backhandedly accused of pride. And for what? For following the beliefs and teachings of traditional clergy.

      Your response above is filled with I, I, I. "I have the right", ""I'm an individual." I'm truly sorry you cannot see this and am also sorry I don't have the gift of conveying these things in a manner which you deem charitable or humble.

      Truly, studying the SSPX is what helped me accept the truth of sedevacantism.

      The V2 Church is either the Catholic Church or the ape false Church as prophesied. There is no room for middle ground. SSPX position is middle ground. And the most dangerous.

      Thank you for your prayers and know that I too prayed for you at the Holy Sacrifice. But I pray the Litany of Humility for myself.





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  36. My wife has had some spiritual trials when she posts honest questions on “Trad” sites (such as SSPX specifically - open forum type).

    She has had this or that question, the type of thing she and I have our own conversations about - asks them on the open forum to get a broader perspective when we lack clarity … and she just gets flamed for even asking the ‘question’, even thinking such thoughts ( they’re hers so I won’t make them public here). It gets personal very quickly.

    This has happened time after time after time. She responded recently on behalf of a lady who posted her own question, obviously a personal and important question, about sexual ethics - and this lady got flamed, especially so by a particular man who told her in no uncertain terms her duties as a woman to her husband. This man knows nothing about her, yet feels free to proclaim didactically how she should act in conjugal relations.

    This attitude is a trial for my wife. It has become a trial for me, as well.

    This thread on the “Luminous” mysteries is a great example of the negative didacticism that is repellent (to her, me, perhaps others). In my own research on, it appears that the traditional Rosary developed over time, was not dogmatically given to St Dominic and is not dogmatically required De Fide (links above). I’ve seen the logic of Pope John Paul II, and it is Christo-centric, Marian-centric, as was the essence of his Pontificate. Nor did he impose them dogmatically. He proposed them, gently. What in the world is wrong with meditating on the life of Christ, one day per week?! They’re actually kind of cool, truth be told.

    As I said above, I prefer the traditional Rosary for the reasons I gave. But my goodness! To criticize, so personally, those who think differently about this is really difficult to sustain as a matter of Faith, and adds to the trials of others’ faith.

    To the extent I have been guilty of this myself, and I acknowledge I have, I am sorry.

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    1. When I was discerning SVism you may remember that I came to the traditional blogs asking for help Aqua. Because I was afraid of EENS, I did NOT want to lean on my own understanding. I wanted solid, Ecclesiastical arguments against a position that totally made sense and did not contradict 2000 years of Catholic teaching/tradition. Unfortunately, all the arguments against SVism are always emotional ones. Just as the arguments for the Luminous Mysteries are. I do not recall one argument from an ecclesiastical or theological POV on these threads that addressed what father SSPX said in his defense against them. Not one. It's always about feelings. The Catholic faith is not about feelings; it is about Truth. And in these diabolical days Truth is very, very difficult to discern. IF the SSPX position is true, then those who follow them should submit to their authority. Personally, I'd be much more apt to listen to SSPX clergy AND their followers if they simply admitted the truth that the SSPX has set themselves up as Pope and Magisterium of what they say is the Catholic Church.

      There is no middle ground.

      There is no such thing a partial communion with The Catholic Church. This is Satan's way of keeping Catholics attached to the ape of the Church.

      SSPX and their position truly is one foot in NO (ape) Church and one foot in Sedevacantism.

      Don't let your feelings fool you.

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    2. I’m glad you have it all figured out Debbie.

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  37. Debbie, Will use nothing in this comment to refer to myself in the first person peonoun since it's abhorrent to you when another person refers to themselves like that. We did not say what you said we said...in the above comment we used "WE have a right"...which indicates you also.

    However, the saying of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" or "the pot calling the kettle black" refers to you since you also referred to yourself in your post several times using the very same word you said for me not to say...you know...that terrible first person pronoun word meaning "me".

    See how awkward it is to write this way merely to please other people? But just for you, maybe this person (me) will write a post about something and never use the word referring to myself in the first person pronoun. Maybe then you will see that at times we need to do what you don't want other people to do but which you do yourself.

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  38. Debbie,

    If anyone has set themselves up as an alternative magisterium it's the sedevacantists who have made themselves the magisterium to depose the pope. The endless brow-beating gets old. I can understand why you were banned on other sites.

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    1. I'm sorry Mary Ann, but I firmly and absolutely believe the Catholic Church via Her supernaturally protected popes are guided by heaven. I'll NEVER not believe that.

      You show me in the 2000 year history of the Church when it's been necessary for a Society of bishops and priests in a "partial communion/irregular canonical status" to guide the faithful instead of listening to Holy Mother Church, and I'll be quite.

      Sedes do not dispose a pope, we simply recognize that ecumenism and religious liberty from the V2 religion and it's "popes" are not Catholic and therefore not from heaven. The mere existence of the SSPX points to the truth of SVism.

      To Susan. I've reread your responses to father's video and perhaps I'm just a naive and less knowledgeable Catholic than you, but I'd be ashamed of myself for talking about a Catholic priest as you did. But hey, you be you.

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    2. Debbie,
      The following is a quote from St Alphonsus Liguori, from his book “Preparation For Death - considerations on eternal truths”. I think it is relevant to the underlying fears many of us have, whether we do or do not possess the assurance of salvation within a Holy Mother Church that is experiencing inner conflict.

      - quote -

      “How can I be certain of pardon? “How can anyone be certain that God has forgiven his sins?”, St Basil asks. “He can be certain of pardon if he hates and abhors iniquity”. He who detests sin, can rest secure of having obtained pardon from God.

      “The heart of man cannot exist without loving some object; it must love creatures, or it must love God. If it loves not creatures, it loves God. And who are they that love God? All who observe his commands. ‘He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me (John 14:21).

      “He then who dies in the observance of the commandments, dies in the love of God; ‘There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. (I John 4:18)”

      - end quote -

      The point being - heaven will never be gained by useless disputations. Heaven is gained by perfect Love (first), keeping God’s commandments (second) and pursuing God to the exclusion of all earthly objects with all our heart, soul, mind, body, strength. I have done and am doing my duty to be a faithful Christian within the Roman Catholic Church. God wants us to act boldly, in confidence with the strength and talents we have been given. God wants us to enjoy Him in heaven forever. Satan lives in doubt and fear. God lives in confidence and boldness (“casts out all fear”). And so … we do the best we can in confusing times, but do not live in endless disputations but rather in the joy of past, current and eternal salvation in God.

      And so, if that means meditating every week, or even just from time to time, on the “Mysteries of Light”; the life of Christ, in our Holy Rosary … I think God is well pleased and honored by that.

      Enjoy the Roman Catholic Faith - time is short, live each day as if it is our last and be assured that to love God perfectly within the RC Church (to the best of our individual capacity) is to possess God in eternity.

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  39. Debbie, It's sad that you have nothing to do with your life other than be a harridan. Have you driven loved ones away and have no one left to harangue except strangers in comboxes? You need to consult a psychiatrist and get meds to help you withdraw from your deep-seated addictive behavior.

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    1. Oh my goodness Susan. Thank you for the hearty lol. And thank you too for the presumption and calumny in regards to my personal life. But mostly I want to thank you for the very Catholic advice to seek psychiatric help with their satanic pharmaceuticals. God bless you my dear sister in Christ. I must have hit a nerve to deserve such a nasty reply.

      I wonder, do you consider those who comment here regularly with lengthy comments (one such who has been on hiatus lately, but has returned recently) but who agrees with you, to have a sad life, with nothing better to do too? Or is it just a coincidence?

      I'm truly sorry that the SSPX's position has fooled you into believing the Holy Catholic Church is defectible and that they, not the Holy Father, are the guardians of tradition. Truly diabolical days we're living in.


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  40. Debbie has simply spoken unvarnished truths here. But being both puffed up with pride and drunk on emotion, the pseudo-trads here can’t handle these truths. Pitiful.

    Debbie, it’s time to shake the dust off your feet and depart. You’re dealing with shameless frauds. Any further wisdom will only be similarly trampled upon. Throw no more pearls.

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  41. I regret ad hominem attacks and try to avoid them myself, but, Debbie, you and Jeremiah have also indulged in them. I have been described several times here as "puffed up with pride."

    It's easy to point the finger at others while you do the same thing. I'm closing down the comments here and if you sedevacantists want to move on, I pray that we meet merrily in heaven one day when we will all know the truth and, perhaps laugh about this.

    I think your crusade to turn everybody sedevacantist is misguided and unlikely to succeed, but zeal is something I can appreciate even when I don't agree with its object. As Jesus said, "Be hot or cold or I'll vomit you out of my mouth."

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