Starting a Schism: So Easy It’s Not Funny -- To deny that Francis is the true pope requires either divine revelation or a very special competence to discern this. Those who make this claim have neither.
To be an expert in theology is to be a faithful son or daughter of the Church, which means taking into consideration not only the doctrines themselves but also the specific role of those who teach it. The only ones in the Church with a divine mandate to teach the faith are the pope for the universal Church and the bishop in one’s diocese. This latter teaching office is shared by divine right with priests, as the ancient Roman rite of priestly ordination makes clear with the words doctores fidei in the consecratory preface.
I mean to say that having competence in theology at any level does not give one the right to lay out before the eyes of all theories that are not theologically certain and publicly verifiable, especially when they contradict the judgment of the universal episcopate. In particular, it certainly gives no one the right—were he a new Aquinas—to declare the Apostolic See vacant.
Amen! That's why I refuse to take a position. It's above my competence. My duty is to keep the faith in season and out no matter who sits in Peter's chair. Hopefully it's a saint willing to die for upholding the faith, but as history teaches, that is not always the case. Dom Noonan adds another reason:
The second is, supposing Francis did formally adhere to heresy, we would need men with the competence to declare this before the universal Church. This competence my critics do not have, for, like myself, they do not belong to the hierarchical Church. We must conclude that these gentlemen cannot “discover” this truth. They have neither the competence to make this judgment nor to pronounce it before the Church.
Do bloggers like me have the "competence?" NO! I certainly don't and it's no act of humility to say that -- just the plain, unadulterated truth. Bloggers and others who claim that competence remind me of the lemmings who jumped on the bandwagon to condemn the Covington kids at the Lincoln Memorial. The students supposedly disrespected a native American grifter. The kids critics were proved to be wrong, just plain, disgustingly wrong! What does our Benedictine say about these oh-so-convinced folks who declare Francis is not the pope?
I suggest it may come across to many as a bit rash and disputatious—if not arrogant—to put forth as the truth a conclusion that is opposed by the universal praxis of the episcopate: every diocesan bishop in the world names Francis in the Canon of the Mass and therefore acknowledges him to be the pope.
This being so, unless and until the hierarchical Church recognizes that the pontiff is in error and formally challenges him to recant, it can only be the status quo until the universal Church declares him to have lost the papacy. Francis was acknowledged as pope by the universal Church. He is still alive, he has not abdicated nor been declared a heretic by those who could potentially do so. Therefore, we must accept him as the pope and not publicize opinions to the contrary, even though we have every right and duty (assuming we have some competence in the matter) to make our findings known to the hierarchy.
The article is long but well worth reading in its entirety. Do I think it will convince my sede vacantist readers or some of the well known incendiary bloggers who insist the chair of Peter is empty? I doubt it. As for me, I will continue to pray for the pope every day when I say my morning prayers and my husband and I pray the rosary. We will pray for Francis' salvation. He has certainly created much chaos in the Church and "made a mess" of things. He isn't the first pope to do so. And so, let us join in prayers for Pope Francis as he prepares to meet his maker. Read these sobering paragraphs from Dom Noonan.
As I write these lines, the Holy Father’s health is cause for concern. Perhaps his time has come, perhaps not. In any case, he will die. I, for one, will weep at the death of Pope Francis, not because I have been one of his fans, far from it. In my preaching, I have often had to explain dogmas that he has muddled or even apparently denied. Such is my role as a father of souls. If I had children and my own father were teaching them errors, I would explain the truth to them while continuing to respect my father and making sure my children respect him as their grandfather.
I will weep for Pope Francis because he is the Vicar of Christ on earth, our father in the Faith, and every truly Catholic heart knows that when your father dies, part of you dies with him. But I will also weep because I truly fear for his salvation. Some of the saints who saw visions of Hell tell us that they saw priests, bishops, and popes there. The responsibility is crushing. To bear the burden of all the Church and to have—in spite of his intentions which no one can judge—caused scandal, perhaps leading many souls to leave the Church or continue in sin, is nothing short of terrifying. All the more reason to storm Heaven that he dies in the Lord’s grace. And, of course, that a worthy pope be elected to succeed him.
I don't see myself weeping for Pope Francis, but neither will I rejoice in his death. Like the dear little mystic, St. Jacinta, I "pray for poor sinners" including the pope and myself. I've been praying for his public repentance and ask for a sign of his conversion like St. Therese did for the multi murderer, Henri Pranzini. Murdering souls is much more serious than murdering bodies and the scandals of Francis are legion. Let's pray for him instead of calling him names or standing in judgment on the mountain of pride and arrogance.
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on Pope Francis and all of us.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for our salvation.
St. Jacinta, pray for the pope and all of us poor sinners.
Guardian Angel of Pope Francis, intercede for him.
Jorge Bergoglio is a manifest heretic, made obvious by his own statements. Bergoglio has desecrated an alter and committed apostasy by engaging in the Pachamama crap.
ReplyDeleteIn what way is he not an antipope?
Read the article. What's worse, a heretic or a schismatic? And what are your credentials for dethroning a pope?
DeleteTake it up with St. Paul: "8 Friends, though it were we ourselves, though it were an angel from heaven that should preach to you a gospel other than the gospel we preached to you, a curse upon him! 9 I repeat now the warning we gave you before it happened, if anyone preaches to you what is contrary to the tradition you received, a curse upon him! 10" Galatians 1
DeleteThe last time I checked, the Church was the authority on interpreting Scripture. When individual Catholics decide they have the right to unseat a pope and use the Scripture to defend it, they are acting just like Protestants. I won't go there!
DeleteSt. Paul doesn’t teach us about a “right” to “unseat” (whatever that means?) heretics and apostates. It just says we have a personal obligation to flee and ignore the false teachings of heretics and apostates. The Francis teaches that outside the Church, without attaining baptism of desire or blood before death, there is salvation in other religions. Moreover, because the Francis hopes and teaches that hell is emptied at some point, there isn’t any need for salvation in the first place. If his heretical teachings automatically excommunicate him from the Church as some theologians posit because he is no longer a Catholic, he has unseated himself and doesn’t need my say so or anyone else’s.
DeleteSurely Bergoglio had dethroned himself by his Heretical statements.
ReplyDeleteHere's an interesting hypothetical, Mary Ann. Is there a line Francis could cross that would cause you to call him out as an antipope, or is there no limit? If he called for child sacrifice, and performed a killing on the altar, would you at that point be able to condemn him?
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to trap you, and I accept all the points in your article and comments (it's above your pay grade, a schismatic is worse than a heretic, etc.). I'm just trying to use this reductio ad absurdum kind of logic to understand your point better. It seems like there are two possibilities for how your position would extend if we took Francis's behavior to a more absurd level:
a) this question is ALWAYS above our pay grade, no matter what, and even if we get an antichrist as pope, we have to follow him and his teachings reverently, and trust the hierarchy (and God) to correct the problem without help from us. Above all, we cannot call for schism, not even from the anti-Christ
b) there is SOME level of atrocious and flagrant heresy and evil that would justify normal Catholics denouncing the pope and his strategically-placed allies (but we haven't reached that point)
What do you think?
Ask me when a pope commits a human sacrifice on the altar.
Delete.... excerpt from an article......
ReplyDeleteGiven that all the Conciliar Popes have stood behind the heresy of universal salvation - that a man can be saved in any religion - we believe that the post-V II Popes may be – and most probably are – heretics, and therefore, illegitimate Popes. But they still remain valid authorities of the Church until a new Pope will declare their heresy, or until the ensemble of the faithful will make their authority lose its effectiveness.
When a Pope becomes a pertinacious heretic, God knows it. Therefore, he loses the pontificate before God. He becomes an illegitimate Pope.
However, given that he has all the appearances of a Pope – duly elected by a College of Cardinals, followed by a hierarchy of Bishops, and accepted by the Church as such – he is still a valid or a de facto Pope. To stop being a valid Pope, a considerable part of the members of this visible society called the Catholic Church should resist his authority and make it inefficacious.
I think Archbishop Lefebvre had the right approach. He never tried to dethrone the popes. He just refused to accept their novelties and passed on the truth as he received it.
Delete“Iota Unum”, by Romano Amerio
DeleteThis timeless book is essential to anyone seeking to understand the radical changes that have plagued the Church since the second half of the twentieth century.
Archbishop Lefebvre himself recommended this work, saying;
“In my opinion, it is the most perfect book that has been written since the Council on the Council, its consequences, and everything that has been happening in the Church since.”
“Iota unum, aut unus apex non praeteribit”
‘Not one jot, nor one tittle shall pass away.’
~Matthew 5:18
My posish exactly,
DeleteWell ladt night I watched a youtube debate from two days ago where a Catholic name Fro debated Calvinist Turretinfan on Sola Scriptura, and the Catholic's argument was that Sola Scriptura can't work because the Bible is false and the navity stories in the gospels are "accretions". So YES some Catholics ARE fomenting schism
ReplyDeleteThis Catholic idea of a need for special comptence is dumb. If the pope says the sky is red you can't contradict him because you don't have special competence. Don't trust your God given eyes. LOL!!!!!! Thank God for Martin Luther.
ReplyDeleteI've disagreed with the pope on a number of his statements and actions: Pachamama, honoring abortionists, weak on sodomy, etc. That is not the same as declaring him a heretic and anti-pope and making myself a pope in the pew able to declare him invalid. Your statement thanking God for Martin Luther says it all. You show the same spirit.
DeleteWay before the heresy of Luther, the celibate monks that preserved the manuscripts of your Bible: prayed to Mary and the saints, attended the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass daily, believed in infant baptism, and prayed for the dead.
DeleteAnd they believed the Bible as they copied it over & over.
Also, may it be clear that the New Testament itself is the product of Catholic Tradition. Every Catholic who knows his Religion declares with St. Augustine: "I would not believe the Gospel were it not that I am moved to do so by the authority of the Catholic Church."
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle." (2 Thess. 2:14)
Mary Ann,
ReplyDeleteWhen, Where, and what did this pope ever speak in ex cathedra aka seat of peter and infallible...
To the extent that.
God protects him from error in that specific statement:** Catholics believe the Holy Spirit ensures the Pope doesn't teach something wrong in these very specific instances.
Basically, it's the Pope making a very serious, official, and error-free declaration on a matter of Catholic belief or practice.
I am one of those Catholics!
ReplyDeleteProudly faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ, to the Magisterium of the Church and to its hierarchy: Cardinals Burke, Sarah, Mueller, Zen, etc. and to bishops Schneider, Strickland, Vigano, etc.
Apb. Lefebvre was excommunicated and his excommunication was not lifted before his death. IF the post conciliar popes were all valid, then the good Archbishop is in a heap of trouble. On any given day Lefebvre would say things that were sede then things that were R&R. R&R is THE worst position a Catholic can hold. It destroys the papacy. This isn't deep theology.
ReplyDeleteAnd we are given the light of reason to discern; if I or even an angel from heaven preach a different gospel....says St. Paul.
And my favorite argument for being sede? The NO religion and it's "popes" officially teach there can be salvation outside the Catholic Church...so even if we're wrong, we're good. Win, win.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you on the legitimacy on who is pope. To me its a political matter and I defer to the canon lawyers. I have a client/friend who was SSPX then followed Fr. Hewko he now attends a FSSP chapel in Atlanta. He admitted to me that he has come to my way of thinking that we are pretty much reduced to being scavengers taking true Catholicism where ever we can find it. My friend came around when after 5 years Fr. Hewko (God bless him his is a good priest) did not grow to what he expected. He is pretty much an isolated group and that is not good. To compound this he preaches do not attend what he calls "compromised masses" which to him are anything outside the resistance priests which would include the ICKSP, SSPX, FSSP etc. To me this is basically saying stay at home watch a live stream and slowly loose my faith. No I will attend any place that still has the true mass, ecclesia Dei, independant including Fr. Hewko, even Sede Vacantist. If this guy is pope or not I really do not care, the overall faith is more important. Thats why with my little website I present what I hope are usefull tools to keep the faith alive. As Fr. Quinn once preeched when I returned to tradition back in the 80s, "Our job is to keep the pilot light of the faith lit". BTW speaking of the site, I know You don't post in there Mary Ann but I switched software and could not move the user list over, bummer, so if you want to join us over there we'd be happy to see you again but you need to resign.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Al, I just signed up again. I have a hard time keeping up with all my subscriptions, but I'm grateful for other bloggers like you who defend and teach the faith. As laity we are called to share the truth with others, the greatest gift we can give them.
Delete“[The goal of the Freemasons is] that the sacred power of the Pontiffs must be abolished, and that the papacy itself, founded by divine right, must be utterly destroyed”
ReplyDelete- Pope Leo XIII
They've succeeded in that most Catholics today don't really believe in the Divine Protection of the papacy. They believe a pope can teach error against faith and morals as long as he's not speaking ex cathedra. Hogwash. What's the point in a pope we can disagree with? And softening the language by calling the "popes" heresies "novelties" is sly.
Well...we are called to be as "sly as serpents and as gentle as doves" so I won't take your comment as a slur or insult. And I agree about the freemasons. They've definitely infiltrated the Church. That many Catholics have abandoned her because of our bad pope and bad bishops is a scandal and tragedy. Nothing will ever make me leave the Church. I will stand with the true bishops who have not dethroned the pope: Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Mueller, Bishop Schneider, Bishop Strickland, Cardinal Arinze, etc. I prefer their company to all those who think they have the authority to cancel the pope.
DeleteThat's how I have approached this pontificate. I just practice The Faith. I returned to Tradition. I take the good from this pontificate and discard the bad, weird and name calling from this pontificate while shaking my head.
ReplyDeleteGuess who said this...."You cannot find Jesus outside the Church. It is the Mother Church who gives us Jesus, who gives us the identity that is not only a seal, it is a belonging"...Pope Francis way back in 2013. What the heck happened since then, I don't know lol.
ReplyDeleteSince Jesuit Francis set Pedro Arrupe (his close friend and ideological twin) on the path to sainthood we can assume that those like Francis and Arrupe go to heaven. (?!)
ReplyDelete