The Jesuits can be relied on for one thing -- to undermine the faith and scandalize their students. They champion all things weird and wicked. And here's an "art" show at Santa Clara University that demonstrates just that (e.g., Latina sex workers who embrace belief in a pagan goddess?).
Mothers, don't let your children grow up to go to Jesuit institutions. They are the schools Fulton Sheen warned parents against, saying not to send their children to Catholic schools where their faith would be taken from them. God forgive them.
“A study of otherness”
Wow. My parents sent all 12 of us to Xavier in Cincinnati and so far we have 16 of 39 grandchildren as alumni or current students. Proud of our Jesuit education over here! It is possible to get a fantastic education at Jesuit universities (and high schools).
ReplyDeleteThere's an exception to every rule. And even at horrendous Jesuit schools like Boston College there are some great professors like Peter Kreeft. But kids are lucky if they can negotiate through the landmines without having their faith blown to smithereens.
ReplyDeleteI lost my faith at a so-called Catholic college, but fortunately found it again pretty quickly thanks to the Blessed Mother.
I went to a Jesuit high school and University and have been a daily ocmmunicant since I was 15 (am now in my sixties). Went on to a secular univeristy for my various Masters' and a Doctorate (Philosophy). Jesuits gave me a great foundation Some of my old school buddies don't practice the faith but I won't blame that on the Jesuits. They did teach me quesiton everything and every one--including the Church and the Pope and the bishops. I continue to question and I continue to find the Truth Unlike you, I have never lost my faith and had to find it again I find the Jesuits make you question but they give you the anchors to keep you tethered as well. Of course my parents were strong Catholics and that is why they sent me to Jesuit schools I know people say that the Jesuits have changed, and I agree, but they have changed to become even better than they were fifty years ago when they taught me my Latin and challenged me to think for myself
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you got a good education, Anonymous. But if you really think the education is better today, you can't be paying attention. Did they have "queer" movie fests and coed dorms, condom machines, referrals to Planned Parenthood, etc. when you went to school? Did they have radical feminists on the faculty demanding women priests and teaching about the goddess Sophio? Did you learn the heresy of the fundamental option that pretty much denies anyone can go to hell (if the place exists)?
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you never had your faith undermined to the degree that you left. But, not knowing what you believe about fundamental moral truths like abortion and contraception, I can't be sure that it wasn't. As for Latin, that just makes me laugh. Are they even teaching it in high school any more? They might not have time for sex ed, safe touch ed, and drug ed.
John Carroll grad married to a Loyola grad currently paying for a student at St. Louis University. The Jesuits are great educators and are certainly responsible for my carrying my faith into adulthood. There is good and bad to be found at all universities. I'd rather my kid be taught to question and then how to reason in the Jesuit fashion. Money well spent!
ReplyDeleteSoooo, Anonymous...what do you think about the Vagina Monologues and other "queer" events at John Carroll and Loyola? http://blog.cardinalnewmansociety.org/2011/02/14/no-end-to-%e2%80%98v-monologues%e2%80%99-performances-on-catholic-campuses-in-2011/
ReplyDeleteAs someone with a thorough Jesuit education myself, I am less than enamored of hard positions that generalize from the presence of evil to the claim that all is evil.
ReplyDeleteThe church today is seriously in trouble and the Jesuits, at least some Jesuits, are likely more part of the problem than part of the solution. At the same time the education I received at Gonzaga High School, and at St. Joseph's College (now University) in Philadelpia made me a critical thinker and I am uncomfortable with blanket statements that are not thoroughly supported by principles and data.
It is likely that at least some of the nasty things at Jesuit institutions are due to the fact that they have compromised with the secular state and receive financial support which makes it possible to have the institution at all.
Well back again ... sorry I was invited to go off to Walmart on an errand ... expecting Christmas guests later today ...
ReplyDeleteThe point I was trying to make is that engagement with secular society means you have to have contact with it. It certainly doesn't mean you have to support it but you can't evangelize to those you never see.
Without knowing more about how the bad things occur and whether they are actively supported as opposed to passively tolerated, I'm in no position to condemn or praise. Mary Ann's default position is understandable and I'm in no position to say she's wrong, but I do tend to encourage a little existential doubt and not engage in too large of a rush to judgment.
I was actually there in the stadium when Fulton Sheen made his famous remark. It was shorting after a bevy of charismatics had given a slurpy saccharine "prophecy" to the priests which I thought was a bit "touched" and the memorable moment was watching the zillion bishops who were concelebrating the mass squirming as bishop Sheen made his remark.
One has to wonder if the compromise with secularism and evil is ever challenged in the classroom. Is there a discussion of the objective character of evil and the nature of sin? The day after a reprehensible performance of an immoral play, is there a challenge of any kind offered to the ideas presented. If the institution merely capitulates and says nothing than it is an enabler... but if it challenges cogently and offers an alternative then perhaps on a larger stage in a greater court good may actually be advanced.
I am uncomfortable with withdrawal to a ghetto. One has to confront evil, and to do that one has to go where evil is and not merely separate oneself. I think the call is more difficult that it at first appears.
"I am uncomfortable with withdrawal to a ghetto. One has to confront evil, and to do that one has to go where evil is and not merely separate oneself."
ReplyDeleteI completely agree, Ray, which is why I've spent years outside abortion mills confronting the death dealers often with children in tow. Also why I risked arrest at rescues and spent time in jail. It is a shame, however, that some of the schools that most need the GAP (genocide awareness project) are Catholic. http://www.abortionno.org/index.php/the_genocide_awareness_project_gap/
The Jesuits are not the same order that taught at Gonzaga in the 50s, Ray, which is why they are disappearing from lack of vocations. I have done several in-depth article on the Jesuits at www.lesfemmes-thetruth.org/.
The collapse of catechesis and infiltration by the world's immoral values has damaged many Catholic schools to the point they are unrecognizable as Catholic. (It's all about the federal money, actually.) Studies show that Catholic youth abandon their faith more from attending Catholic schools than secular ones. Sooooo...it is not a question of a "ghetto mentality," but a question of bait and switch and fraud - selling one product while delivering another inferior one.
As for critical thinking --- the Jesuits appear to have given that up years ago. The solid Jesuit priests I know (rarities) are among those most critical of their brethren. Fr. Hardon, a heroic Jesuit who died in 2000, was persecuted by the order for years despite being an unofficial ambassador for Pope John Paul II and a spiritual director to the Missionaries of Charity.
As for Xavier's "Catholic" identity, do a search on Xavier and the Cardinal Newman Society and see what you get, from "queer week" listings to featuring dissenters and Obama supporters. The local bishop boycotted the Xavier graduation in 2009 because pro-abort Donna Brazil was the commencement speaker.
ReplyDeleteSorry all you Jebbie lovers, the order is about as orthodox today as the bench of bishops in England who endorsed Henry VIII's adultery and theft of the Church. I wouldn't send a child of mine anywhere near a Jesuit institution. Instead of learning to be martyrs, they'll likely learn to cooperate with evil and call it good.
JESUIT DECLINE Here's a link that agrees with you Mary.
ReplyDeleteI think one could generalize the theme here to say that any college, not just the Jesuit colleges, are way too expensive and don't deliver the education that they should. We are saturated with schools that indoctrinate and don't truly teach. You could do better by buying a set of the Great Books and have the primary sources from the Western tradition educate directly instead of getting watered down pap from secondary sources that either didn't read or didn't understand the primary sources.
My daughter got her Masters Degree from Santa Clara University in the 1970s. I was appalled at one class she had to take. The books for the class were nothing more than radical feminism. One really has to watch what classes one's adult children take if they go there. Some I am sure are good and others are rotten. Most of the older Jesuits here in California are very good, but some of the younger ones are not. One older Jesuit in our area actually prayed for the conversion of the Jesuits in a sermon. As one blogger said on the site link you have here, "When the Jebbies are good, they are very, very, good, and when they are bad, they are horrid." I tend to agree with him. Let us pray for them.
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