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Wednesday, September 18, 2019

Thoughts on Schism -- Is it Immanent?

Is it time for the schism yet? Let me check my watch.

A sensible analysis from One Mad Mom 
Schism for Dummies -- Mad Mom brings up the German situation in passing while she tells us what is NOT schism (in case you were worried that being alarmed about the pope makes you schismatic).
 If you haven't read about it, the German bishops are holding a synod where they plan to "discuss" issues that involve settled Church doctrine with which they disagree. The Vatican told them not to saying the synod is "not ecclesiastically valid," but hey...who is the Vatican to judge? If the Germans want to partner with a lay group that demands women's ordination and approval of sexual immorality, live with it! After all, Pope Francis, they are just following your instructions to "make a mess" and who better to do that than the German church. (I can say that because "my people" are from Germany -- well...at least 3/4 of them.)   
Unlike the American bishops who obeyed the Vatican's order not to make any decisions about the sex abuse crisis at their Fall meeting in 2018, the German bishops...mmm...shall we say...demurred. Their dissent reminds me of Charlie Curran leading the pack against Humanae Vitae. (And it's all about sex again...what is it with these dissenters?) But Curran was only a lowly priest/teacher with a pen and a phone. Marx is a cardinal who heads a dissent-riddled group of bishops in an influential country with lots of money. 
And after all, did Francis really mean that they shouldn't play games with settled doctrine? He does it all the time. Consider that the Germans are taking a large role in the upcoming Amazon synod which can have universal application for the Church. What can one expect from the Germans' involvement? Nothing good, that's for sure. 
Is the German church moving toward schism? Or is it already in a "de facto state of schism"?
'De facto state of schism': Vatican fears German bishops trying to reform church teaching -- I can't help but think about the revolution in the Church instigated by that horny monk, Martin Luther. He may be admired by Pope Francis, but some of his contemporaries believe he was possessed by the devil. One of his main opponents, Johannes Cochlaeus, was a powerful defender of the faith writing against both Henry VIII and Luther. I recommend his writing. If you want to understand history go to the primary sources. Oh...and by the way, the German bishops just luv Martin Luther.
Are the German bishops channeling Luther?
Pope Francis says he doesn't want a schism. Can we believe him?
On American critics, Pope says he doesn’t want a schism but he’s not afraid of it -- Frankly, I never trust what this pope says, because he often says one thing and acts in a completely contradictory way. 
When he answered the question on schism, he used it as one more opportunity to condemn "rigid" folks, his go-to condemnation of the orthodox. When he says that, he always means those of us who embrace the Church Fathers and fight doctrinal and liturgical innovations that mark a break with the Church's two thousand years of teaching. 
Who do you think he meant when he said this? “'Today we have pockets of rigidity, which aren’t a schism, but they’re semi-schismatic ways of life that will end badly,' the pope said. He added that bishops, priests and lay people who are 'rigid' lack the 'health' of the Gospel." He claimed in this same press conference to willingly accept criticism which can be "helpful."
That flies in the face of his unwillingness to engage with any of his critics. Remember, we've been waiting for an answer to the dubia since 2016. Francis talks about openness and transparency, but his actions are all about avoiding responding to any questions he doesn't like and obfuscation. Confusion and chaos are the marks of this papacy which the German bishops are confident will change the Church forever. Remember Bishop Overbeck and his prediction that there will be no going back after the Amazon synod. 

So is the schism coming? And will the Pan Amazon synod be the fuse? What do you think? (I'm saying the St. Michael prayer right now and urge you to join the prayer crusade promoted by Bishop Schneider and Cardinal Burke.)

8 comments:

Mary Ann Kreitzer said...

Is Edward Pentin right? Here's what he tweeted today.

"'The most 'progressive' Catholics recognize they cannot engineer the radical changes they want without precipitating a split in the Church. So they want orthodox Catholics to break away first, leaving them free to enact their own revolutionary agenda."

Anonymous said...

They already engineered the radical changes Edward and it failed! They want sole custody of all Church property and wealth before they and their ranks of aged and/or contracepting pew sitters are all gone. They want to get the Trads and all their Catholic children away from them so growing Trad orders cannot legally take back what is left physically of the Dioceses in Europe and North & South America. This is why Summorum Pontificum led to BXVI's deposition

Anonymous said...

We're not dealing with schismatics, we're dealing with hijackers. The hijackers aren't even remotely Christian.
However, when the plane is flown by hijackers, the passengers are a captive audience until the hijackers are physically removed.
May that time come soon.

Kathleen1031 said...

He's only worried about the trads, in light of the upcoming Synod. He knows there will be a stink. He's not worried trads will leave, I'm sure he hopes they do, he's worried about the bad press the trads are going to make, rightly accusing him of causing a schism by his apostasy. He's causing a distraction and trying to beat the rush, by calling out a schism beforehand. He knows most Catholics are too old or too comfortable or too disengaged to realize he is a complete heretic and is destroying the church. He's betting on it now, and thus far, winning.
He's got the entire West (which he hates), Catholicism (which he hates), free market capitalism (which he envies and hates), faithful Catholics (which he hates), and Christendom (which he hates) all in his sights.
I don't know what will happen, it could go either way. The majority of Catholics don't care about actual Catholicism, the trads are not really with him in any sense of the word. There is already a de facto schism. The Amazon synod will harden the trad opinion, and blow right past the mainstream Catholic, who has failed to realize they aren't Catholic anymore.

Anonymous said...

Pope Francis lies (to paraphrase Abp Vigano) "shamelessly" and constantly. Indeed, he consistently says one thing when he means the very opposite and has done since the early days of his pontificate - e.g. to the effect that the Church should not be a NGO while he is clearly endeavouring to convert it into just that. Other examples would fill a volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Further, he consistently refuses to "tow the line" with respect to upholding Catholic doctrine and dogma (which is basically 90% of what his job description requires). In saying this, I am not being disrespectful to his office, simply stating incontrovertible facts (subject only to maybe indulging in a little light-hearted hyperbole).

Given these facts, there is ample evidence to show that he has is clearly not a child of God (e.g. see what St John says in Chapt 8, vs 44 and 55 of his Gospel) but bats for the other team.

Ergo, is the question of if and when there will be schism even relevant as this point?

To be clear, I am no sedevacantist, I have an open mind about the questions over the validity of Benedict's abdication but can't say I conclusively agree that he remains pope and I am totally confused and bewildered about the current situation in the Church BUT I firmly believe Christ has NOT abandoned His Church (I keep reminding myself - and Him, in my prayers - that it IS His Church and not Bergoglio's) and that all this is only happening because He wills it and He is in total control and will get us out of it when He sees fit, which will probably be linked to the sacrifices, prayers, and fasting of the faithful, according to Divine Justice.

Leo D. Lion said...

The miraculous events at Fatima 100 years ago is not over. The Fatima experts will tell you that Blessed Mary will appear one more time. They don't broadcast this because of many reasons.

But mankind will be punished by a nasty war and when we think it cant get any worse, it will. The changes in Earth's weather to include the magnetic North moving around and anomaly occurring to other planets can only point to "something is coming" worse than Noah's time.

Mary Ann Kreitzer said...

Interesting and frightening comment, Leo. Do you have any references for this? I'd be interested to look into it further.

Leo D. Lion said...

For Mary Ann K.

Hi Mary:
Here are a few excerpts and web addresses related to Blessed Mary appearing again at Fatime:
Web Address: http://www.unitypublishing.com/Newsletter/Fatima7thTime.htm

Unitypublishing.com writes:
"This might be a little crazy but in Fatima there are a lot of experts. The four people here that are both holy and wise when it comes to the messages of Fatima have been asked about the seventh apparition. Of course, Lucia could answer this but she is now dead. The other four have answered the question. (names not useful for this Newsletter for now)

-The first said without a second thought, "Of course She is coming here again."
-The second said, "She has not come a seventh time yet."
-The third said, "Heaven does not make mistakes in semantics. She said 'here' at the Cova and She has not done that
yet."
-The fourth said, "You are only now figuring that out. I have known that for many years."


Here is another source pointing out that Our Lady will return a 7th time to Fatima:

https://forums.catholic.com/t/will-our-lady-return-to-fatima-a-seventh-time/114600


Thank You for your time,
Leo D Lion