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| Do traditionalists only care about the vestments and altar linens? Is it a negative to give God dignified and beautiful worship? Read Exodus 35-39 and Leviticus! |
I used regularly to read the blog of a Catholic which I found interesting and often thought-provoking. Ultimately, however, there came a parting of the ways. I stopped visiting because he closed his eyes to every scandalous thing the pope did defending what was indefensible. More and more he and those who commented on his blog condemned Catholics for defending the faith against Francis's very un-Catholic behavior: his promotion of abortion, sodomy, etc., his reverencing Pachamama and the circle spirits, his syncretism that leads others to think all religions are the same. None of this is Catholic and to point that out is to defend the faith and protect those being led into sin by the scandal.
Ironically, the blog author and his visitors treat fellow Catholics, who happen to be traditionalists, the same way Francis does. They label us judgmental, rigid, clinging to the past, etc. But one of the most outrageous accusations I read was that traditionalists only care about the accoutrements, i.e., vestments, altar linens, etc. and don't care about doing the works of mercy. They vilified in general all those who go to the TLM. We are all in rebellion and will soon be outside the Church. Fr. Z got a special slap. He is "scary." Well, let me say in caps: GIVING GOD WORSHIP IN SURROUNDINGS THAT GLORIFY HIM FULFILLS HIS COMMANDS IN THE BOOKS OF EXODUS AND LEVITICUS. Jesus did not overthrow the laws of worship in the Old Testament. Remember what happened to Cain for his shabby treatment of God!
I wonder whether these sanctimonious folks actually know any people who attend the Latin Mass. I imagine they think we are all like the pharisee in the temple, while they are righteous They stand in the front of the church saying, "Thank God I'm not like these traditionalists: rigid, judgmental, clinging to the past, rebelling against the pope. Unlike them, I practice the works of mercy."
Wow!
Well, that's why I don't visit that blog any more. My last brief stop was probably six months ago. I thought about leaving a comment yesterday, but what's the point? Those of us who attend the TLM are "rebels" who will soon be out of the Church, and anything we say will be used against us. Life's too short!
No one at the SSPX chapel I attend trashes those who go to the novus ordo. And yes, they do serve their neighbors! I talk to people at the after-Mass coffee who engage in community activities and organize prayer groups or work with young people. Some work to get people involved in local government, especially to protect children against evils permeating our society. There are many different ways to serve. Some serve through their apostolate to their own large families, raising future Catholic priests, nuns, and parents devoted to the faith.
At every TLM we pray for the pope and the bishop. All the traditionalist I know accept the authority of the pope and magisterium. What they don't accept is the false teaching that every dictat from a cleric must be blindly obeyed. By that rationale the Church would likely be Arian today. Not only should we not follow a pope or bishop into dissent and heresy, we absolutely may not. Peter asked the Sanhedrin whether they should obey God or men. Hello, you blog commenters, the Sanhedrin were the religious authorities of the day. Should Peter and the others have obeyed them.
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| Processions honoring Mary are staples of traditional worship. |
The commenters will no doubt say, "But they were being obedient to Jesus and his teachings!" Exactly! If the pope is in error, if he is actually teaching heretical propositions that go against doctrine (telling those in adulterous unions they can receive Communion), the faithful must "resist him to his face" as St. Paul did to St. Peter, THE POPE!
As for the works of mercy, many at the chapel are leading others to Christ. This morning I met a Pentacostal lady who learned about the Mass because one of our members has a rosary group at his apartment house and invited her to come. Like Andrew said to Peter, "Come and see." She's now thinking of becoming a Catholic. I wonder if any of the critics on that blog has ever drawn anyone into exploring the Catholic faith, or are they too busy slandering people they don't even know.
My husband and I have spent twenty years in our little local novus ordo parish and love the people there. We are auxiliaries of the Legion of Mary and are signed up for a weekly holy hour. I love the faith-filled, holy people there. It would never occur to me to judge them as only interested in the novus ordo for the modern music from the Gather hymnal or seeing Father face the people, or receiving Communion in the hand, etc. Even less would I accuse them of failing to do the works of mercy. We are fellow Catholics in the vineyard.
The blog commenters said that TLM adherents will only be satisfied when we get rid of the novus ordo. Really? Who is being banned and thrown out of the churches? But they are okay with that because, in their minds, we are all rebels who apparently deserve the most draconian treatment.
Perhaps they are right. We are in rebellion!
It is the same rebellion as the 16th and 17th century English Catholics who resisted Cranmer's Mass and went to their deaths for the crime of attending the TLM, essentially the same TLM we attend today. Why should we not be allowed to attend the Mass that made so many saints. I embrace their company.
Meanwhile, I don't condemn or criticize anyone who attends the novus ordo. I believe in most cases the masses are valid although I've been to several gong shows one of which so deviated from liturgical norms that I did not go to Communion. When you see matter that looks like gingerbread, see women participating in the fraction, and hear a Eucharist prayer never before heard in the history of the Church, you can well question the validity of the Mass.
Everyone has a right and a duty to follow his/her own well-formed conscience.
Our Lady, Seat of Wisdom, pray for us.
I really appreciate your thoughtful and charitable approach to this topic. I agree, but have a different perspective to add in.
ReplyDeleteYour comment: "Giving God worship in surroundings that glorify him fulfills His commands in the Books of Exodus and Leviticus" is certainly true, an important element of the Holy Mass, but is not the core heart of the Mass. it is, rather, an essential branch. What is the heart of the Mass, that makes it different than the Novus Ordo (I have to call it what it is - New Mass/Order - the literal and practical translation from the Latin)?
The heart of the TLM, the Mass of St. Pius V, approved by the Dogmatic Council of Trent, promulgated by Papal Bull for all time from the Papal Seat, is that it is The Holy Sacrifice Of The Mass - it is Christ re-presented on Calvary, really and substantially present, so that we who are there are *with every generation of Catholics who ever were or will be* including the Blessed Mother and St. John at the foot of the Cross. We are there in unity within the Divine Liturgy which is from heaven, not from man.
This is simply not the case with the New Mass. Those who created and promulgate the New Mass insist on this point. The New Mass is a shared meal among Catholics which is why it is turned inward rather than facing Our Lord; why it is *generally* (with exception) insisted that there be no rail, no kneeling, no receiving on the tongue, non-consecrated ministers,including females, administering the Host. And the Liturgy is not just different according to taste ... it is profoundly different at the Liturgical level. It is simply not the same thing, even when said in Latin itself. It is, indeed, a *New Mass*.
So, in sum - one is more beautiful than the other, no doubt; but in essence one is the Holy Sacrifice, the other is not.
When you see, truly see, what was done in the production of, and in the aftermath of Sacrosanctum Concillium and its champion Annibale Bugnini, then you can never unsee it.
And so, if you haven't seen this powerful video series on "Mass Of The Ages" here are the links. You can see Episode I on YouTube. Episode 2 has had "copyright issues" and has been restricted, though it worked for me today. Episode 3 is yet to come. Episode 2 demonstrates the difference between the Masses from an aesthetic perspective. Episode 2, otoh, demonstrates the differences from a Liturgical perspective. *THIS* episode is the heart of the current conflict within the Catholic Faith. It does an incredible job of explaining, demonstrating, visually proving what has been done to Holy Mother Church within our Divine Liturgy. Simply stunning. It made me angry, and I already knew, in general, most of what they said.
Web Site: https://latinmass.com/watch
Episode 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=xdbwNMYKhw0&t=1676s&pp=2AGMDZACAQ%3D%3D
Episode 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7jNpHwGnA
Both Episodes are free, and they can also be watched from within their Web Site (if YouTube presents a problem).
There is a reason why the Bishop of Rome and the Episcopate are firm and insistent on allowing all "syncretistic" innovations into the Church but on the other hand, aggressively (even violently) eradicating the TLM from every corner of the Church - searching, finding, prohibiting. That reason is that one Mass is not compatible with the other Mass. They know it, and they act as if they know it. It goes beyond aesthetics to the beating heart of the Faith itself ... *what are we doing at Mass*? New Mass answers the question differently than The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass of Pope St. Pius V, TLM.
God Bless,
Aqua
Most people are sheep and follow right along. Most people are "mean girls", if given the chance. Most people are followers, not leaders. Most people will go against their own understanding of right and wrong if the others do it. Studies and research have proven this to be fact. Even to the point of contradicting what is right in front of them, most people will ignore their conscience in order to go with the crowd, happily goose-stepping down the road. We used to wonder why the German people went along with things, well now we know, because others did. We see with the Covid shots, most people went along and may still go along, no matter what evidence there is the shots have harmed so many.
ReplyDeleteCatholics are led today, to be bullies, by Francis. He bullies Traditionalist Catholics, so they follow his lead. Bishops bully Catholics, so they can too. People want to be part of the in-crowd. You can see this in politics everywhere. And if somebody picks up a rock, expect it to be thrown your way. People are often weak, gullible, and stupid.
Don't worry about accusations of not doing enough for others. That is a ridiculous accusation and should be ignored. It's nobody's business what anyone does or does not do in the volunteering realm. Loving your brother may mean you say a prayer for others each day. Where is it written in scripture that God said, no, you must also volunteer at the soup kitchen twice a week. Human beings have their ideas and constructs. Abortionists liked to accuse pro-lifers of not caring about born babies. It's all nonsense. Refuse to care what others think. It's also nobody's business what I think of VII. For what it's worth I think it had to be evil, look at the destruction that came after it. I didn't think that prior to TC.
The TLM is the pinnacle of the worship of God, the best we humans can do. The evil men in Rome cannot tolerate such Catholicism, such obvious worship of the Triune God. They cannot tolerate the true sacrifice of the Holy Mass and the reverence shown to God in the TLM.
By their fruits, you shall know them. Also, the sheep know my voice, a false shepherd they will not follow. Oh, how many do just that.
Hi Aunt Mary, I've been seeing a lot of this too. The idea that people attending the Mass in latin makes them rigid et. al. is ridiculous and, like you said, it makes me wonder if any of the people saying those things even know anyone attending the latin Mass. I wonder if they have even experienced it themselves. I've realized that we have at least 2-3 generations of Catholics who don't even know what the latin Mass is and have never been to it. Is the seminary even teaching our priests how to say anything but the Novus Ordo? I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteWe (speaking about me and the younger generations) don't even know what was taken away. I don't remember if it was you, but I have this book Lex Orandi and it's been a great read for a side-by-side comparison. I think a great trilogy of books to read would go like this...
1. Fulfilled by Sonja Corbitt (explains a lot about tradition, vestments, holy of holies (what's that, right?)
2. The Latin Mass Explained by Msgr. George J. Moorman (written before we had the Novus Ordo I believe)
3. Lex Orandi by Daniel Graham (...could probably just focus on the chapter on the Mass)
I'm looking everywhere for REVERENCE and I see it almost nowhere. Reminds me that Saint Jean-Marie Vianney said, "You know God can see you, right?" Or something like that.
Hi Steve, I gave you Lex Orandi. Dan is a friend. I've given a lot of those away. I'm going to send you Peter Kwasniewski's book on the Eucharist, The Holy Bread of Eternal Life. The chapter on Leviticus is fascinating. I've always found that book difficult, but that chapter really opened my eyes. The Iraelites were idolators. They were exposed to all kinds of animal worship in Egypt. The laws in Leviticus emphasized the kind of sacrifice (the appropriate matter), who could perform the sacrifice, the ministerial priesthood, and how the liturgical ceremony was to be done. Who, what, and how! I'd be interested in your opinion.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I hope all your family is doing well. If you get up here to see your mom, come visit Camp Kreitzer. Need some sweet motivation? I'll give you a jar of honey and introduce you to our chicks and send you home with a dozen eggs.
Love you!
There is so much confusion amongst Catholics, and has been since V2. I think Bergolio has been a gift to us Catholics, because he has been able to highlight the existing schism that previous Conciliar hierarchs were able to hide.
ReplyDeleteYes, I said schism. When a Sovereign Pontiff (in this case, Pius XII) defines heretics and schismatics as OUTSIDE THE CHURCH, Vatican II said they were in the Church, just with "imperfect unity"...thus rejecting the authority of the See of Peter, which is the defnintion of " schism". Since 1965, that schism has been hard to decipher, save for the most discerning souls. I was not one of those discerning souls. Bergoglio and his many heresies and blasphemies (against Our Lady, and the statement that Christ failed us on the Cross) have only served to make the fissure clear.
The problem is that few know what is going on, and so will follow the "leader" to the end.
Aqua, God bless you, I am in total agreement with what you observed here, and would identify the points you made if asked what is the difference between the TLM and the Novus Ordo. It is positively the Sacrifice of Christ at the altar, and the reverence by those present who understand that is exactly what is happening right in front of them. All other co-existing factors such as the understanding that the priest is intricately part of the rite, not just an observer, as we are, but that his consecrated hands make possible the unfathomable mystery taking place as we gaze. You cannot attend a TLM without having that awareness hit you, it does not seem, and it converts hearts to God. How could it not. Once people experience the TLM, things do not seem the same. I searched for the TLM all my adult life but never knew it. I attended Novus Ordo all my adult life and knew something was missing but did not know what, until I experienced it. I love my former Novus Ordo church and pastors. I always have a place in my heart for them, but the TLM, it's on a whole different level, which is why Rome hates it so much. But it was given us by God, and they will not be able to stamp it out, but will make it grow and increase with their little efforts.
ReplyDeleteThings are really heating up, that's for sure. Our priest of the ICKSP is in Italy this week for their chapter meetings. Before he left his sermon was more or less a pep talk. The church is run by bad shephards he said where those clinging to the true faith are punished and heretics rewarded. He said its a state of white martyrdom that we now suffer. I am convinced the institute will have to make a decisions once and for all and get off the fence. After all the devil owns the property the fence is on. To their credit the institute refused to sign a document from Cupich proclaiming the Novus Ordo is the one true Catholic mass. People think its only the Latin that draws us to the mass. Maybe at first but its all about the doctrine. Father Sommerville wrote an open letter of apology for his work in changing the mass. In one part of the mass it says Lord find it for us and he revised to read Lord help us find it. This negates all dependence on our Lord to that we can do it if God wants to help thats fine. Communion on the tongue is a Arian Heresy refusing to belive Jesus is God instead that he is only a creation. Its more than just Latin but Latin is the language of the church of which the devil hates. Father Hewko has just come out with an excellent sermon how compromise kills the faith. https://rumble.com/embed/v1f58np/?pub=4
ReplyDeleteKathleen1031, Thanks be to God! All Catholics in every age have always been united in their common, singular desire to be with Mary at the foot of the Croos, on Calvary, with Jesus their Lord. And Holy Mother Church leads us there. And allows us to remain there - Our Redeemer with His redeemed.
ReplyDeleteReceived via E-mail:
ReplyDeleteBrava, all-over-again, Mary Ann! Great piece. Some people from St. John's [In Front Royal, VA] have already moved over to our Linden chapel; more to come when we move to a larger space. Other TLM attendees are rallying to support the pastor, Fr. Gee, as well as the bishop. Daily TLM Mass at 7 a.m. continues, but Fr. Gee said last week that he will move it to the Adoration Chapel on Sept. 8.
I am amused that St. John's and Sacred Heart in Winchester are only about 25 miles apart, yet EACH will have the gym-Masses as of Sept. 8. (Sept. 15, OL of Sorrows, would have been more appropriate date, IMHO.) I don't think the BVM will smile on TC, despite the selection of her birthday.) Of course, Linden and the new location on Reliance Road are nearly equidistant from those gym-chapels! Go figure: Francis and Co. hope to unite Catholics by dividing them. Thank God for SSPX, who arrived in F.R. just in the nick of time!
Stay well and happy, with your able pen in hand.