Search This Blog

Friday, December 12, 2008

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Protector of the Unborn, Pray for Us

Today is the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe, mother of the Americas and patron of children not yet born. Run to the Blessed Mother when you are in trouble or fear anything. She is a strong protector. Under her title of Our Lady of Guadalupe she is a powerful advocate, especially against the wickendness and snares of the devil. If you know anyone who favors abortion ask the Blessed Mother to intercede and here are several websites (below) where they can get more information. There are many others. There is no excuse to be ignorant about the reality of abortion. And those who know the reality and still defend it need our prayers and sacrifices. The Lord promised to treat us the way we treat the least among us. Can there be anyone littler or more helpless than the child in the womb? We have an obligation to defend those being led to the slaughter. If you want justice for yourself, defend life. If you want peace, defend life. If you want eternal life in heaven, defend life. The alternative is indifference and apathy (lukewarmness) toward one of the gravest moral evils of our time. And the Lord made it clear what he would do with the lukewarm - "I will vomit you out my mouth."

Abort73.com
The Center for Bioethical Reform
Priests for Life
Abortion Facts
After Abortion

4 comments:

Turfsuper said...

Again:

1. If you legislate abortion, what penalties do you propose?

2. Why have the Churches failed in convincing Christians about the horror of elective abortion?

3. What kind of protections for pregnant mothers do you believe they should have from employers?

4. Even if you legislate abortion, how to you propose to convince Christians of the immorality of abortion?

5. How would you discriminate between medically necessary and immoral abortion?

6. How would such a law be enforced?

7. How do you propose to raise the wages of Americans so that mothers do not need to have a career if they want to stay home?

Ray Schneider said...

I thought I'd comment on this. Abortion is the intentional killing of a human being. As such it is clearly murder since that is the definition of murder. In this case it is murder by proxy since a medical practitioner, a backalley butcher moved by legislation to the front alley, killing a child with the collusion and agreement of the child's mother.

1. If you legislate abortion, what penalties do you propose?
Whatever the appropriate penalties are for murder would seem to apply.

2. Why have the Churches failed in convincing Christians about the horror of elective abortion?
The last time I looked it was called sin and selfishness.

3. What kind of protections for pregnant mothers do you believe they should have from employers?
Why is there a need for protection from employers?

4. Even if you legislate abortion, how to you propose to convince Christians of the immorality of abortion?
Most Christians are convinced of the immorality of abortions. Those that are not are also not Christians since God is rather clear on the subject. There are a lot of hypocrites out there of course. Nancy Pelosi for example.

5. How would you discriminate between medically necessary and immoral abortion?

There are no medically necessary abortions. There are some medical conditions that would require surgery like tubal pregnancies. The usual rule is to do the best one can to save both the child and the mother. In any case, even those conditions that call for some morally casuistic thought are quite rare.

6. How would such a law be enforced? In the usual way

7. How do you propose to raise the wages of Americans so that mothers do not need to have a career if they want to stay home?
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything -- I would suggest being satisfied with less crap would probably go a long way towards solving the problem.

Many of the questions you ask seem a bit contrived. It is probably worth pointing out that the consensus of the entire Western World was that abortion was wrong up until the early 20th century and the advent of the eugenics movement which was adopted by the Nazis.

The 50,000,000 children murdered by abortion since 1973 put Hitler to shame, he only managed about 10 million. Each of those children was a human being and the decision to kill them had exactly the moral equivalence of sending a Jewish, Polish, or other person to the gas chambers. The relativistic ethic that says otherwise thinks you are just a side of meat if it is convenient for someone in power to think so.

Turfsuper said...

1. Murder isn't just murder. Murder is an illegal killing. Other kinds of killing are legal. Then of course there is manslaughter. The only difference in all of these is what's the motive and the state of mind. Is abortion to be 1st degree abortion, 2nd degree? What mental state in the mother would make what differences? Is the teenager to be held for murder when she is forced to abort by her parents? There is no way that mothers who abort all have the same mental state or motivation. We all can murder, but only mothers can abort.

2. Names and slogans are not working and the Churches are trying to blame something other than the current culture. Some call it a culture of death but I really think it’s in the social culture that Churches are supporting. This subject alone would require a book. In this country Christian women are the overwhelming majority practicing abortion. This screams failure.

3. Employers do discriminate. Women who become pregnant are passed over for promotions. Many employers do not have adequate if any benefits for pregnancy.

4. Again the vast majority of abortions are performed by Christians in this country. Looks like 50 million Christian hypocrites. Again this screams failure.
Where do these numbers come from? If these numbers are just estimates than we have no idea what the problem really is. Where do these numbers come from?

5. The one I recognize for example are twins that share one heart. In this particular case, the one twin that did not have a heart was aborted. The result was a healthy baby.
Not to have done the abortion would have murdered the one twin with a heart.
In any case, even those conditions that call for some morally casuistic thought are quite rare. Maybe there needs to be a permitting process? A special medical board?

6. So we will put a police man in every operating room and doctor office? Again there are some practical questions that remain unanswered and clearly not thought through.

7. You and I agree here mostly but I am asking why have the Churches failed teaching that “being satisfied with less crap would probably go a long way towards solving the problem” and many others. The Churches want to blame the government when they should be looking at the corporate aspect and our commercial society. Doing with less, being more supportive of those who are pregnant and never looking down at an unfaithful spouse or pregnant teenager. Really is anybodies life really over if there’s a pregnancy?

My questions are not contrived but if immoral abortion is to be stopped, there are necessary and practical steps that are needed and necessary for success.

Medically necessary abortions are rare but do exist. Unless that is recognized you are asking doctors to practice your faith for you and not medicine.

Christians are overwhelmingly the majority who abort babies in this country. If that doesn't scream failure of the Churches to teach morality then I would hate to see a failure.

Abortion has been practiced throughout history but I have not examined such incidents in any detail.

I am certain however that unless the vast majority stop practicing abortion any law or legislation is certain to fail.

Thanks for your attention.

Ray Schneider said...

1. Murder isn't just murder. Murder is an illegal killing.
**** Actually Murder is the intentional taking of an innocent human life. The legality is irrelevant to the morality otherwise the Nazi killings would be OK. They were ordered by the state. ****
Other kinds of killing are legal. Then of course there is manslaughter. The only difference in all of these is what's the motive and the state of mind. Is abortion to be 1st degree abortion, 2nd degree? What mental state in the mother would make what differences? Is the teenager to be held for murder when she is forced to abort by her parents? There is no way that mothers who abort all have the same mental state or motivation. We all can murder, but only mothers can abort.
****That's why there are degrees of murder, no difference.****

2. Names and slogans are not working and the Churches are trying to blame something other than the current culture. Some call it a culture of death but I really think it’s in the social culture that Churches are supporting. This subject alone would require a book. In this country Christian women are the overwhelming majority practicing abortion. This screams failure.
****Failure to teach morals and a general failure of the society to be moral ... I agree. It is called decadence and generally precedes the destruction of a society. We're on the fast track.
****
3. Employers do discriminate. Women who become pregnant are passed over for promotions. Many employers do not have adequate if any benefits for pregnancy.
****So get a different employer. The thought police are not going to solve this one.****

4. Again the vast majority of abortions are performed by Christians in this country. Looks like 50 million Christian hypocrites. Again this screams failure.
Where do these numbers come from? If these numbers are just estimates than we have no idea what the problem really is. Where do these numbers come from?
****People who say they are Christian and do un-Christian things are liars. The problem is that we have people who are "social Christians" and that is the problem one always has in any society. That's the basis after all for the WASP acrynmn. But that doesn't make them Christians it simply makes them social climbers.****

5. The one I recognize for example are twins that share one heart. In this particular case, the one twin that did not have a heart was aborted. The result was a healthy baby.
Not to have done the abortion would have murdered the one twin with a heart.
In any case, even those conditions that call for some morally casuistic thought are quite rare. Maybe there needs to be a permitting process? A special medical board?
****Difficult cases make bad law. I don't know how the single heart case could have been best handled, however there are cases of Siamese twins who were joined for life and lived rather productive lives. I think there might have been a possibility there. The fact that we are no longer willing to do anything at all heroic to defend life is a measure of how far we have fallen. ****

6. So we will put a police man in every operating room and doctor office? Again there are some practical questions that remain unanswered and clearly not thought through.
****Didn't say that. People will always disobey the law to some degree. When they are caught they should be punished. Evil is evil and you can't solve the problem of evil with laws and police. But you have to resist or you become evil yourself.****

7. You and I agree here mostly but I am asking why have the Churches failed teaching that “being satisfied with less crap would probably go a long way towards solving the problem” and many others. The Churches want to blame the government when they should be looking at the corporate aspect and our commercial society. Doing with less, being more supportive of those who are pregnant and never looking down at an unfaithful spouse or pregnant teenager. Really is anybodies life really over if there’s a pregnancy?
**** Pregnancy is always a gift. It is a gift of new life and the society that does not welcome that gift is a society in decline.****

My questions are not contrived but if immoral abortion is to be stopped, there are necessary and practical steps that are needed and necessary for success.
****There is no such thing as moral abortion. So you have already given up. Your language testifies to that fact.****

Medically necessary abortions are rare but do exist. Unless that is recognized you are asking doctors to practice your faith for you and not medicine.
****If there are medically necessary abortions -- a fact I think largely unlikely and in some few cases possible -- then those cases have to be treated as exceptions. The health of the mother is usually used as a barndoor to make abortion on demand available.****

Christians are overwhelmingly the majority who abort babies in this country. If that doesn't scream failure of the Churches to teach morality then I would hate to see a failure.
A FEW COMMENTS ON YOURS
Abortion has been practiced throughout history but I have not examined such incidents in any detail.
-- This is not an argument but an observation. Many heinous things have been done throughout history, that does not recommend them.


I am certain however that unless the vast majority stop practicing abortion any law or legislation is certain to fail.


Thanks for your attention.