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Saturday, December 6, 2008

How Obama Got Elected

Over a million and a half viewers have seen the video highlighting the Zogby poll questions that show how media bias influenced Obama voters. Their "knowledge" was obviously gleaned from the biased mainstream media which spent more time talking about Palin's wardrobe and her daughter being with child than discussing serious issues.

The left loves to attack the right as stupid Christians attached to their faith and their guns, unintelligent buffoons easily controlled by their leaders. But this video and the results of the Zogby poll show who really had no idea what they were doing when they pulled the lever in the voting booth. Visit How Obama Got Elected for more information and a head-shaking laugh. Seems like the left gets their opinions from NPR and Saturday Night Live. Not a single Obama supporter interviewed on video could correctly identify Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, or Harry Reid.

And what's the left's response? Attacking the messenger, of course. John Ziegler, the conservative talk show host, who commissioned the poll has been under relentless attack since the results were aired. No surprise there. But browsing his website makes for interesting and amusing reading. And don't miss the video; it's a hoot!


Unknown said...

John Ziegler here. Yes, that one. Thanks for spreading the truth!

Turfsuper said...

How Obama got elected was not media bias for Obama but the loss of control and inability of the corporate and mainstream media to paper over the general incompetence, policy failures and fundamental bankrupt right wing ideology. No longer do they own the 'corner newsstand' or 'bully pulpit'.

Ray Schneider said...

Gotta admit that Turfkiller is a hoot! Who does he think has owned the corner newsstand as long as I've been alive, which is probably longer than he has been.

I remember the liberal media on Eisenhower's case, and then on Nixen's case, as if he started the Vietnam war ... hello. Liberals certainly like to rewrite history to their liking. They do it while it's happening nowadays. Ah the power of the media.

Turfsuper said...

I agree with you in part that the media was very liberal. Since the ownership rules have change the media has been turned into a corporate mouth piece. For me, much of the media be they liberal or conservative have abicated their responsibilities to keep their jobs. For example, on CNBC, the reporters always apologize for providing negative news about GE. It was terrible during the Vietnam war and it's no better today just more conservative. Bad news about the economy and some of your constitutional rights etc. have not been reported.

Now the corporate media be they liberal or conservative no longer have exclusive control. This is why recently the FCC is wanting to make a change before Bush leaves office so everybody gets to form a line to charge us for inter-net access and not just the immediate provider.
At first the media was very much against Obama especially with Rev. Wright and of course John Ayers. However McCain and Palin and some of the republican talking points turned to the ridiculous that even the corporate media had to stop supporting them for example "The fundamentals of the economy are strong."
If you check on the questions being raised about the Ziegler survey are not being adequately addressed. For example, he hasn't revealed where the funds for the survey came from.

Apparently, the finding was that Obama voters were "ignorant" because they hadn't absorbed the republicans smears and lies about Obama during the campaign. If a similar poll were constructed in like fashion about the Democratic smears and lies about McCain and Palin, they would would have been just as ignorant.

Ray Schneider said...

Well Turfkiller,
I think that there are a number of issues you raise:
1) lack of responsibility in the media -- I agree it has been growing since the time of the Vietnam war. Prior to the war the expressed goal of the media except in explicit commentary, was to report the facts in as unbiased a way as possible. Increasingly that has become telling us how to think about issues and seeing the facts through the lens of the desired interpretation. Not news but total commentary is now the rule.

2)Actually the economy is strong. McCain was right. If we end up in a depression it will likely be induced by all the "fixes" to the problem which was induced by government encourage, indeed mandated, irreponsible lending. Credit is now has been for a long time way too easy to get with too little concern for ability to pay. Only a strong economy can weather that kind of systematic irresponsibility. Thank you Congress!

3) The automakers are a special case. If you think the problem is systemic then why are the domestic producers of Toyota, etc. not complaining. Hmmmm.... How about decades of irresponsible Union Demands and poor leadership in the auto industry. As one who lived through every minute of the build up of the imported car industry I think the U.S. automakers have been ostriches for the entire some fifty year run. It didn't help that the congress put all kinds of mandates and demand on them which many of their competitors didn't have to meet. There is probably $2000 worth of mandated crap on your car that you don't need and likely doesn't do all that much for you.

4) Why is it that the source of funds for a survey only comes up with the results of the survey are other than the desired results for the party in question? Surveys have to be paid for, but that doesn't mean they are biased. In fact a biased survey is hardly worth doing since you don't learn anything from it.

5) Which "smears and lies" about Obama did you have in mind? I think the biggest problem is that the "smears and lies" are actually "concerns about extremist connections" -- again, that is one of those things that requires perspective, which is something in entirely too short supply these days. Nowadays it is all about rhetoric and feeling good. Actual facts and principles play little role, perhaps because we have not taught them in something like forty years. So we have a generation or two of folks who think the only thing that matters is their own self-interest. Everything else is rhetoric.

But I'm supposed to be changing out a toilet -- which is why I have so much time to chat -- it's not something I really want to do much.

Cheers, Ray

Turfsuper said...

Hey Ray,

1) Not news but total commentary is now the rule” I agree mostly.

2) Actually the economy is in for a lot worse yet to come. If you read The Dollar Crisis: Causes, Consequences, Cures [Hardcover] by Richard Duncan ISBN 0470821027 written in 2003, it’s like reading today’s economic headlines.

McCain was unrealistic about the economy but he wasn’t the first or only one. This event has been predicted for a very long time and successfully ignored by all politicians until recently. If there is a depression, it’s the result of the last 30 years and many decisions. The government may be able to slow the elevator but it’s going all the way.

Subprime was part of the problem and maybe the straw that broke the camel’s back. It wasn’t that credit has been too easy to get, but that there was too much credit created. All the extra and unnecessary credit had to go somewhere. It created and encourage in a temporary manner, short sighted unsound companies and businesses with too much capacity. So here comes the layoffs.

It wasn’t the mandated lending but it was the permitted investing in ‘securitized’ paper by Freddie and Fannie instead of just mortgages as originally intended. Subprime lending was done by unregulated non-mandated small companies, sold to banks and then sold to Fannie, Freddie banks, investment firms between each other along with some hundreds of trillions of dollars of unsound commercial and corporate securities. The worst is yet to be disclosed.

3) Several issues with cars.

a) Detroit has had it’s head in the sand for way too long so we agree completely here. Having said that now there is too much manufacturing and service capacity now that there is much less wealth and no credit.

b) Because of the credit crisis, foreign manufacturers are not selling cars either. If the foreign makers had borrowed as much as the Americans, they would need a bail out as well. Why do so many businessmen plan on the best happening and hope the worst will never come? Looks like Detroit has been living pay check to pay check.

c) Can’t blame the Unions though they have and will have to make more sacrifices. They are no more unreasonable than companies who want to work you like an elephant but pay you like you’re a mouse.

d) The purpose of regulations and mandates is to make companies act in ways that are not in their best interest but in the best interest of the country. This is to keep those who don’t do the right things from gaining an unfair economic advantage over their competitors. That is the nature and intent of these kinds of regulations. Environmental regulations are another good example.

4) In this survey the source of funds was questioned. John Ziegler in answering actually because quite testy and continued to refuse to answer.
If it wasn’t a problem and no undue influenced, there was no reason to not answer the question or at least remain civil. Ziegler isn’t passing the smell test here.

The “concerns about extremist connections" was part of the Ziegler survey. If you were asked about how many problem pastors Palin had, could you give the correct answer of three?

It really is about rhetoric, feelings (especially bad feelings) facts and principles together. I’ve learned that the only important differences in people are the things they do when things are wrong and not many important differences when things and or feelings are good.

Teaching is good but leading is more Christian. Self interest isn’t bad but self-interest that is only short sighted can lead to many disasters for the individual and for large organizations as well. Detroit car manufacturers living from pay check to pay check is a perfect example. At least Toyota saved their cash during the good times.

I hope you keep chatting after you finish the toilet.

Ray Schneider said...

To reasons not to answer the question: 1) it is irrelevant, impudent, and offensive, 2) the past track record of the left is to persecute those who fund things they object to. I wouldn't answer it either.

I agree with a lot of your other points. I do think that Obama is not qualified, has very alarming associations in depth, but on the other side his record so far is of a rather vanilla Clintonesque leftist, so perhaps he won't be as bad as I envisioned. Only time will tell on that one.

I'm not sure what your point about teaching and leading is. The toilet isn't done but at least it's not leaking right now. I am no plumber. If it had a digital interface I'd be in better shape.