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Thursday, April 28, 2016

Who is Speaking the Truth? Cardinals Kasper and Schonborn or the "Rad-Trads?"

Watch the video below from The Remnant, but first my comments.

Yes, I respect these "Rad-Trads" who are so systematically ridiculed and dismissed by so many.

 Who are more faithful to the Church? Those who uphold the doctrine and tradition of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church throughout the ages, or those who endorse an "open and dynamic" church where all is relative and capable of change?

I'm going to be visiting The Remnant to read some of the old articles they are republishing to see exactly how prophetic the traditional voices were.  I have my doubts that the Latin Mass will ever return to common use; but what about a direct vernacular translation and a return to ad orientem? It's possible. Overnight, we would see the elimination of the showman priest who is constantly changing his shtick to keep the "audience" entertained. We would see increased reverence as the connection between the Holy Sacrifice and the Mass was repaired. Once again the Mass would emphasize the worship and adoration of God vs. the worship and celebration of the community and the showman priest who struts around the sanctuary miked up like a Saturday Night Live comedian. Spare us, O Lord!

So that's my dream and, as they say, if you can dream it; it can happen. Shall we pray for that? A reform of the reform is possible -- just not likely at present with this pope and his progressives. So let's pray and fast for him. As he says, our God is a God of surprises. The best surprise of all would be a liturgical restoration, because lex orandi lex credendi, as we worship so will we believe. And, as one German priest predicts, "The old Mass is the Mass of tomorrow." I pray he's right!


Karen said...

I see no reason for the Mass NOT to return to the Latin (actually, return is not the right word; it's RETAIN). Latin is a language called a "dead" language; therefore, it's meanings will always and forever remain the same as opposed to our English language which is constantly evolving and changing and words don't mean what they used to mean. All Latin missals have the English printed right next to the Latin so there is no need to worry about not understanding what is going on. The Latin words have been with us for 2000 years and according to VII documents were not to be changed to begin with. The leftists and progressives just used some of the ambiguities and ran wild. The Mass of the Ages should always and forever remain the same, no vernacular updates. There will soon have to be updates of the updates (reform of the reform), see? It will never end. Why can't we just be satisfied with what has been handed down for centuries? It produced saints without number. Are we so much wiser now that we can decide to change what the Church fathers put into place? Obviously we are not!

PS: I think "Rad Trads" is rather demeaning and unnecessary, as they just are doing the Catholic things, including Holy Mass, just as has been taught and handed down through all of Christianity without any name other than Catholic.

TLM said...

Yes, Mary Ann, let's indeed PRAY FOR IT!! I watched Mother Angelica's 'ad orientem' Funeral Mass on TV....the most beautiful Mass I have seen in MANY MANY YEARS!! Actually made me cry!! We are so starved for reverent legitimate liturgy, it is pitiful.

Mary Ann Kreitzer said...

Karen --

I had no intent to demean the traditionalists which is why I put the term in quotes. That is what their critics call them. As for the Latin, I just think it would be a hard sell. I've heard so many comments from people who would absolutely rebel over a return to Latin. Is it likely that a pope is going to impose Latin on a church dead set against it? Frankly, I doubt it. I'd like it to happen; I just don't think it's likely. But who knows? We can pray for it. I'd be happy just to get the English translation from the missal.

Anonymous said...

It's also the changing of the prayers and meanings into English.....the New Mass corresponds in its prayers to Cramners mass back in the Reformation.....did all those English Martyrs die for nothing ?
It's not Truely Catholic in its essence....the English people who were scared went along with the changes thinking they'd keep their faith....but over time look where things are.....I've come to realize Catholics don't ever compromise on important things.

Anonymous said...

My dream is the same as yours MaryAnn!

I believe the English translation of the old Mass would have an effect of catechizing many poorly catechized Catholics since the prayers themselves have so much Theological depth and understanding !

Having jumped to an Eastern Rite over thirty years ago after our local parishes presented the New Mass more as an entertainment venue then the Holy Sacrifice, we discovered some very interesting tidbits. For instance, many of the ethnic Eastern Rite Catholic Churches offer only one Mass in English for those who have switched Rites or for those who are the children or grandchildren of the original ethnic parish founders who never learned their parent's native language from the old country.
In fact, one priest I know explained to me more Orthodox consider it heretical to only say the Divine Liturgy in the language of the nation of origin, i.e.Greek, Russian etc. rather, than to say it in the common language of the nation they are located in.
( Latin was once called the "vulgar" because it was the common language of the Roman nationally dominated world).

Catholic means universal and not necessarily a universal language such as Latin but instead, a universal Faith expressed in a the universal order of the Mass. In other words ,if I am Roman Catholic I should have access to the Mass celebrated with the same words prayers and order in every RC Church I attend minus the ad lib frivolities or shortcuts that are very common in our Diocese. However, if I travel to another country I should expect the RC Mass to be said in their language but still remain the same prayers and Rite.
For traditionalists to insist Latin is the only language of the Church, they are, imho, in affect demeaning some 20 other Catholic Rites as being somehow unequal to the Roman Catholic Rite, which of course they aren't because they are all under the authority of the Papacy and the Vatican.

Anonymous said...

One more point I would like to make,translations from Latin to English do NOT have to change the meaning at all. I am one of those old pre Vatican two people who still have my old missal with the English on one page and the Latin on the other and believe me , the New Mass prayers have been abbreviated and changed from even the old English translations of the Latin on the opposite side of the pages in my old missal.
The original promulgation of the New Mass in Latin is very different from what is said in our parishes now. I used the original Latin New Mass promulgation at a Benedictine Monastery back in the mid nineties and was stunned that the New Mass we have attended now was very different for the original New Mass when it first arrived on our shores. In fact,it more resembled the Ancient Divine Liturgies of St John Crysostom and St Basil.I wondered if good Prelates were sold on the New Mass during Vat 2 , in an effort for Unity with the Orthodox, a theme that has been intensified by the more recent papacies. I have even wondered if Unity between both "sister churches" was mentioned in the Third Secret of Fatima as necessary for
the one True Faith to survive in the neo pagan culture we are living in.
Hence , when traditionalist's condemn "unity" between the Vatican and the Orthodox are they condemning one side of the Apostolic Succession of Christendom that holds tightly to Traditional translation of the Bible as Dogma, thus allowing for new translations to enter into the Catholic Church to dilute the ancient stated Biblical understanding of the Early Church Fathers? Rarely have I read or heard ANY traditional "professional catholic" journalists write about the political errors committed during the Crusades. Go study the political roots of what launched the Fourth Crusade wherein Christians attacked desecrated and looted the churches and murdered fellow Christians for the indebted greedy aristocracy of Venice.I would remind you that Pope John Paul 2 was WIDELY criticized by "traditional" journalists and the SSPX for returning a very few relics to the Orthodox.

As far as the Traditional Latin Mass being the "Mass of all ages", that too can be misconstrued as demeaning to the more ancient Divine Liturgies of the Catholic East and Orthodox also, and is often used as an argument by those "Traditional" journalist authors who have little real knowledge of Church History and politics other than mainly one sided Roman documentation of the Middle Ages.

I was quite surprised to read that Jesus gave Sr Faustina the prayers of the Divine Mercy Chaplet because St John Crysostom 349-407, wrote the Divine Liturgy which incorporates the 'Thrice Holy Hymn' ....."Holy God ,Holy and Mighty, Holy and Immortal,Have Mercy on us!" Sound familiar? Perhaps Jesus was reminding us through Sr Faustina that these prayers within the Liturgies of the East confirm that the "Mass for All Ages" does Not mean the ONLY or Best Mass for ALL True Believers but that Prayers and Hymns incorporated in the Mass should be prayers that reinforce Theological Truths in beauty and reverence that catechize and confirm the Faith, rather than conform to any one particular modernized societal culture?
A certain popular "Traditional" Catholic editor that I knew prior to his rise to influence, had labeled me as not being a True Traditionalist aka follower of SSPX.
We engaged in personal dialog years ago because of the very points I made above.
Not true, I love the old Latin Mass but I also love the Eastern Rite Divine Liturgies too.
I know the ever rising changes did not come from translation errors, but from a real effort to make the Mass into a McDonald's fast food affair in order to please both the priests and parishioners who see Mass as a time consuming Obligation instead of the grace filled opportunity to give Honor and Glory to God in community.