Today is the feast of St. Lawrence of Brindisi, a Capuchin friar who died in 1619. He had a great gift of preaching and also spoke Hebrew, so Pope Clement VIII asked him to preach to the Jews of Rome. Think of that! A pope who thought Jesus was serious about baptizing men of all nations and asked a brilliant saint to bring the Jews to Christ. As an important figure in the counter-reformation, St. Lawrence established Capuchin friaries in Germany and Austria that brought many Protestants to the faith, perhaps some of my own ancestors. He also had great devotion to St. Joseph. St. Lawrence wasn't canonized for over 250 years. Do you really think that the Vatican II popes should have been rushed to canonization, especially in view of the crisis in the Church which, one can reasonably argue, they aided and abetted?
Are canonizations infallible?
If you have a big question mark about it, you are not alone. Peter Kwasniewski offers the views of a number of scholars in his 2021 book of essays on the subject, Are Canonizations Infallible?: Revisiting a Disputed Question. I have not read the book, but, in view of the recent rush to canonizations for the post Vatican II popes, I plan to. Nicholas Kalinoowski in a 2021 review at OnePeterFive wrote:The question of canonization’s infallibility has been debated with greater or lesser intensity for over 800 years. Nevertheless, it is events of recent years—the massive overhaul of the processes of beatification and canonization in 1983 and the subsequent tsunami of beati and sancti, among them some highly controversial figures—that have increased the sense of urgency in this conversation. Today, at a staggering rate, high volumes of saints are raised to the altars in what a modern journalist called the “saint factory.” Father John Hunwicke [one of the contributors] notes that Pope Francis has even joked, in rather poor taste, that “Benedict and I are on the waiting list [to be canonized].” This sort of quip from the Holy Father can only raise suspicion in pious souls that the exemplary heroic virtues, many miracles, and rigorous investigation which typified canonizations of the past have been waived for a participation prize—a “halo award,” in which the qualifications for winning have been substantially lowered, and even the meaning of “blessed” and “saint” is now no longer clear. If the heights of Christian perfection are suddenly densely populated, then does sainthood really fulfill its purpose of aiding the faithful by providing pure and potent manifestations of virtue, of singular success in living out a state of life?
Does the question, in fact, matter? Is a shrug and take-it-or-leave-it attitude an acceptable response?
As a seeker of truth, I don't think so. Although no one is forced to adopt the cultus of a particular saint, isn't there a danger in saying that someone who actually performed acts that undermined the faith is a hero with exemplary virtues that should be imitated by the faithful? It seems so to me.
If you 're interested in pursuing the question, the SSPX has a podcast here. I haven't listened to it yet, but I've found their Crisis in the Church series excellent. You can also check out these article which may just add to your confusion. Some say, yes, the act of canonization is infallible, like this article by Donald S. Prudlo. Some say no, like Roberto de Mattei, to whom Prudlo was responding.
We live in challenging times when seeking the truth often puts one in conflict with various voices in the Church. Should we just accept the word of "authorities?" I'm afraid for myself that often results in cognitive dissonance where what I'm being told seems to conflict with the facts. Reason tells me blind obedience is not a virtue. Like the Blessed Mother at the Annunciation who tested the angel (Remember, Satan can appear as an angel of light.), I want to make sure that what I'm being told is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. The old canonization process was like a trial with a devil's advocate prosecuting the case against canonization. Today, the process seems more like a research paper that may only provide the positive side of the person in question.
One more challenging dilemma in the crisis.
JPII who had voodo witch doxtors dance in the Vatican was canonized, and Mother Teresa who wrote in her diary she was an atheist.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but if people go to 'a better place' (i.e. heaven) for: "REPENT and turn back to GOD. ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST as our personal LORD and SAVIOR. BELIEVE on His DEATH on the cross and on HIS RESURRECTION. Be ye saved while we are still alive. Now is the time for salvation."
ReplyDeletehttps://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2023/07/a-sobering-meme-from-facebook-preparing.html
Then, what is this post about? Going to heaven means you are a saint (only saints get in to heaven: "when the saints go marching in"). If you can go to heaven for believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins as you indicated two posts down, then how do you pose this question w/a straight face: "If the heights of Christian perfection are suddenly densely populated, then does sainthood really fulfill its purpose of aiding the faithful by providing pure and potent manifestations of virtue, of singular success in living out a state of life?"
Protestant heaven is full of snow covered dung. Catholic heaven is full of the pure of heart (love God w/whole heart, soul and mind/cleansed the inside of the cup). Yet Protestants have retained the 'saint' and 'heaven' nomenclature similar to the Catholic Church post-Vatican II. Nevertheless think they are talking apples and oranges. Same as you in these two posts about the 'better place' and how to get there.
You're right, Anonymous. Everyone in heaven is a saint and every saint is in heaven.
ReplyDeleteThe Church recognizes particular individuals as canonized saints to be models for the faithful because of their heroic life of virtue. One of the most famous classics is Imitation of Christ. The canonized saints imitated Him in a way worthy of recognition and emulation.
I don't see your point.
Peter,
ReplyDeleteMother Teresa was an atheist? She suffered the dark night of the soul. That is not the same thing. Give some evidence for such an outlandish claim.
I don’t believe Mother Teresa was an atheist but she certainly was a modernist. Her own words from her book reveal this:
Delete“We never try to convert those who receive [aid from Missionaries of Charity] to Christianity but in our work we bear witness to the love of God’s presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, or agnostics become for this better men — simply better — we will be satisfied. It matters to the individual what church he belongs to. If that individual thinks and believes that this is the only way to God for her or him, this is the way God comes into their life — his life. If he does not know any other way and if he has no doubt so that he does not need to search then this is his way to salvation.” (Pages 81-82)
Can anyone list the most important saints in Catholicism, and anything they actually accomplished that isn't just wishy washy humanism like Mother Teresa feeding poor foreigners like any NGO does?
ReplyDeleteI would like to see a return to the general practice of not starting the canonization process until 50 years after the person's death.
ReplyDeleteThis gives some time for the "dust to settle" (in a manner of speaking). Time for emotions to quell.
It seems that the hurried canonizations of Mother Teresa and JP II were done too soon.
I am not saying that they are not Saints in Heaven. I am saying "What's the rush"?
Just my two cents.
Simple. The rush is to canonize VII.
DeleteIn other words a return to hiding their evil; to give the hierarchy enough time to burn Mother Teresa's diary to hide that she was an atheist next time.
DeleteGood faith is necessary for our church if not broader society to succeed. The flood of canonizations tests that good faith maxim. Vatican 2 tests that maxim. The current man in white in Rome tests that maxim what with his welcoming weekly a revolving door of cads if not worse.
ReplyDeleteUltimately the flood of canonizations dilutes the value of the designation yet does earthly recognition ultimately matter? Man’s plaudits mean nothing in the end when God’s judgement is rendered. Probably a few “saints” here on earth would trade the recognition to get out of Hell.
Peter said...JPII who had voodo witch doxtors dance in the Vatican was canonized, and Mother Teresa who wrote in her diary she was an atheist.
ReplyDeleteNo. JPII never had 'voodo witch doxtors" (sic) dance in the Vatican. Nor did Mother Teresa ever say or write that she was an atheist.
God bless
Richard W Comerford
"The Church recognizes particular individuals as canonized saints to be models for the faithful because of their heroic life of virtue. One of the most famous classics is Imitation of Christ. The canonized saints imitated Him in a way worthy of recognition and emulation."
ReplyDeleteMaybe you learned this in some V.C.II class you took, but it's not about you, it's about them. The Church canonizes those whom it believes are in heaven. The faithful are not encouraged to imitate the lives of many saints because of their severe penances/fasts. The first saints were
the martyrs - the martyrology. Those who aren't martyrs need miracles.
The Assisi gathering introduced a novelty to interreligious dialogue by discovering the unique value of interreligious prayer for peace. It reminded the world that it is impossible to have peace without prayer. Yet, at the outset, Pope John Paul II clearly defined the form and content of the World Day of Prayer in order to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. He noted that we gather “to pray together,” but not “to be together to pray.” According, there were separate places of prayer for each religion. After the prayer in each religious group, all marched in silence towards the lower Square of Saint Francis for the concluding ceremony. Once gathered in the Square, again each religion presented its own prayer, one after the other.
ReplyDeleteOn a later occasion, Pope John Paul II further elaborated the significance of this landmark day and prayer for peace. “Every authentic prayer is under the influence of the Spirit ‘who intercedes insistently for us.’ […] We can indeed maintain that every authentic prayer is called forth by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person. (To the Roman Curia, December 22, 1986).
https://www.dicasteryinterreligious.va/35th-anniversary-of-interreligious-meeting-for-peace-in-assisi/
https://www.papalartifacts.com/october-27-1986-pope-john-paul-ii-calls-the-world-day-of-prayer-for-peace-in-assisi/
Spin: a 'summit': "In 2002, during John Paul’s final Assisi EVENT, Rabbi Israel Singer, at the time the head of the World Jewish Congress, at one point departed from his prepared text, turned to the pontiff, and said, “Only you, John Paul II, could put this together,” and then offered the pontiff a smart salute.
https://cruxnow.com/analysis/2016/09/popes-inter-faith-summit-assisi-belongs-ongoing-revolution
"These are the five original Faith Declarations on Nature which were created in 1986, at a meeting held in Assisi by WWF-Internationa. The meeting stemmed from an idea by HRH the Prince Philip,Duke of Edinburgh at which five leaders of the five major world religions –
Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism – were invited to come and discuss how their faiths could and should help SAVE THE NATURAL WORLD (which NT says will be destroyed). By 1995 when the Alliance of Religions and Conservation was formed, the five initial faiths had issued more detailed statements, and six other significant world faiths had also made their statements about the environment. Links to the book, Faith in Conservation, published by the World Bank, in which all these eleven statements were published together for the first time, can be found at the end of this document."
http://www.arcworld.org/downloads/THE%20ASSISI%20DECLARATIONS.pdf
King Charles, Embracing Diversity, Cuts the “The” From “Defender of the Faith”
The new King, who in the 1990s suggested a change in the monarch’s title from “defender of the faith,”—meaning Christianity—to simply “defender of faith,” will have his commitment to diversity on display at his coronation this month when religious leaders of the Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim and Sikh faiths will play an active role in the ceremonies, a first in a 1,000-year-old tradition steeped in Christianity.
https://www.scientologyreligion.org/blog/king-charles-embracing-diversity-cuts-the-the-from-defender-of-the-faith.html
Highlights of John Paul’s interfaith journey
The papal interfaith career of Karol Wojtyla began in 1978. Let us now map his courageous route:1978 FIRST PAPAL AUDIENCE: The new Pope surprises everyone by granting his first papal audience to a Jewish friend from his childhood.
https://www.scarboromissions.ca/interfaith-dialogue/the-church-dialogue/pope-john-paul-ii-interfaith-giant
Earthquake destroyed church where Buddha worshipped over tabernacle at Assisi
https://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A430rcAssisi1986.html
Interesting topic and comment conversation. My contribution is this, specifically in reference to Mother Theresa, as an example given above of a rapid, questionable Canonization.
ReplyDeleteHer works were obvious, which is why she was loved. But her theology seems doubtful in hindsight, especially in reference to specific quotes - possibly taken out of context, or perhaps not (I’m no expert on her, so I won’t say either way).
The lesson to be learned from her, however, is primarily in how she spent her life. She spent literally all of it in service to the poor.
And so I have to ask myself, is that a Christian virtue, spending the treasure of my earthly life on the needy, the poor, the sick, the unfortunate, the forgotten? The answer, obviously, is yes - that is the essence of what I am called to do with my earthly treasure of life and strength and wealth (whatever, small or large we have been blessed with).
I spend a great deal of time trying to get my faith correct before God. I am a convert to the Catholic Faith because I have spent the vast majority of my life trying to precisely know and believe the Gospel Truth as revealed by God, not men.
Ok. But what do I *DO* with that knowledge? It is clear that God judges me based on not just belief, but action - what did I *do with the treasure God gave me to invest* (Matt 24:14-30)?
And this is where I give Mother Theresa much credit. Her first responsibility was to save souls. Did she? I can’t speak to that with certainty. Her parallel responsibility is to heal the sick, feed the hungry, visit the captive, clothe the naked, tend to the afflicted (etc). That she did for sure - we all know that. She is the icon of Christian service.
And so I accept the possibility her belief was infected by Conciliar deviations, though I don’t know. But I know for sure her service to God was heroic - it was instrumental in my conversion to the Catholic Faith, observing her works from afar and admiring them as the product of a Faith so far beyond my own as to inspire a spiritual revolution within me.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ (Matt 25-35-40)
And
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. (I Peter 4:8-10)
And
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45)
So there’s that.
Mr Peter: "wishy washy humanism like Mother Teresa feeding poor foreigners like any NGO does"
ReplyDeleteMatthew 25:34-40 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home. I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then the people who have God’s approval will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you as a stranger and take you into our homes or see you in need of clothes and give you something to wear? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “The king will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did for me.’
God bless
Richard W Comerford
Mr Peter: "to give the hierarchy enough time to burn Mother Teresa's diary to hide that she was an atheist next time."
ReplyDeleteMother Teresa's diary can eb found online.
God bless
Richard W Comerford
Anonymous: "by discovering the unique value of interreligious prayer for peace."
ReplyDeleteWhat value? The 1986 event was followed by wars. Endless wars.
The Catholic Church is the one, true Church founded by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ with Christ as its head.
Christ did not found a multiplicity of religions. Religions outside the Catholic Church are false ones. Christ commanded His followers to covert all nations. Not to engage in "interreligious prayer".
God bless
Richard W Comerford
Interesting quote I found on Catholic Twitter. Always finding these little nuggets:
ReplyDelete“Without the Pope, each man differs from another in faith, because he has only his private judgment to guide him.”
Cardinal Lépicier
1863-1936
Surely we can all agree we are very divided in our beliefs re: Novus Ordoites of every stripe imaginable, trads in various camps Bergoglio is pope, '22 sedes, '58 sedes, pro SSPX, anti SSPX, SSPX and sedes are also divided.
RWC @ 7/23/23 2:10 pm The source of the quote, "by discovering the unique value of interreligious prayer for peace." is the Catholic Church, dicastery for interreligious dialogue at the vatican:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.dicasteryinterreligious.va/35th-anniversary-of-interreligious-meeting-for-peace-in-assisi/
Why don't you send your question and comments there?
Aqua: Jesus asked, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” Then he pointed to his disciples and said, “Look, these are my mother and brothers. Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!” Matthew 12:48-50
ReplyDeleteWhat does it matter if you feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless and care for the sick in this life only for them to burn in hell in the next? Same w/"saving" babies from abortion -- only for them to lose their souls because of lives of sin, never knowing the true Faith and how to practice it. Unfortunately most inside the Catholic Church are now in a worse boat than those outside the boat because they believe they are in the true boat (although the truth is written in our hearts so I'm not sure how much slack Jesus Christ will allow because of the confusion of the times; certainly there was confusion in His time and most did not follow Him).